I can see Bolts 1 pedal driving the new road rage trigger

Discussion in 'GM Hybrids and EVs' started by Starship_Enterprius, May 31, 2017.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My bet is that the OP Bolt driver was still getting use to the one pedal driving.

    Which is a plus for R&D costs. Not only have BEV concepts already made use of that arrangement, but it has been used by diesel-electric locomotives for decades; they are just hand controls instead of foot.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Neither did our previous, 2010 Prius, but I fixed that!

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    Thank God you're finally talking sense instead of making nonsensical blanket statements like "Any car" and "Brake lights are supposed to" etc etc. It is quiet frustrating trying to make specific points to someone who writes in erroneous generalities. So you do allow Bolt solution may need tweaking...good! because nowhere did I say regenerative braking per se is the issue as you state...just that specifically Bolts implementation of 1 pedal driving (as clearly stated in the title of this thread). Your position is it was the drivers fault, mine is that it is a design issue. Hope that is clear now....boy I think I need a vacation even from my own thread lol.
     
    #43 Starship_Enterprius, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  4. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    I think we are all aware of brake riders, toe and heel drivers, people who downshift unexpectedly (I drove manual for years). You can remove brake riders from this list because even if their brake lights up, the car does not slow down enough to cause panic behind. And for the latter 2 they are rare occurences done intentionally unlike the Bolts where it can happen repeatedly and unintentionally. You can read the owners in the Bolt forum are not even aware it is happening.

    The car bolted, flitted the brake lights and bolted again beyond human capacity to move between pedals... I think we are old enough to know what is physically possible.

    Common man...we all drove bump cars when we were kids right?


    And here's my point, a bump car that is moved to the road to become a daily driver will need to somewhat dial back on the intensity of 1 pedal driving.

    Thanks...exactly my point GM may need to make adjustment to their system. Even if we let that off as newbie Bolt driver, it just highlights the fact the transition is too aggressive and may need adjustment.
     
  5. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Well, all the Autopilot Teslas have all of the hardware for a blended brake pedal, they just don't use it for that.

    And, I believe some passenger trains actually do use a blended brake control, too. Freight separates dynamic braking from friction braking.
     
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Let's be clear that you are basing all of this on your experience with a single Bolt driver.

    I drive my own Bolt in the San Francisco and Silicon Valley areas where EVs are a common sight so I regularly end up following other Bolt drivers on the highway. I have not noticed those Bolts showing an unusual pattern of brake light engagement.

    That's true. I think GM should add some visual feedback in the driver's display screen indicating when the brake lights are on. This would give drivers confidence that the lights are coming on automatically at appropriate times and also give them feedback when it might be coming on at unexpected times.

    Also, I think the lights should persistently stay on when one pedal driving is used to bring the car to a complete stop until the car is driven away again.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe the screen should be programmed to say, 'stop driving like a nut, you're giving us a bad name!':p
     
    Trollbait and markabele like this.
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not every one that uses their left foot to brake ride the brake, and can hit it faster than people behind them expect. Brake lights coming on with sudden deceleration is possible without one pedal driving. it is the driver behind responsibility to be alert and leave a safe distance.
    We all should do a better job of reading our car's owner's manual.
    For how most people drive, that is true. "He shouldn't have been able to brake that fast," will not protect you from charges stemming from rear ending that person if there brake lights were working.
    I did. They just had a basic on/off foot switch; full speed or stop, nothing in between. Car foot pedals have a far greater range of input than those amusement rides, which allows a far greater amount of control. You drive a Prius. You should know this. Between acceleration and the simulated transmission drag from regen on the gas pedal is a spot that puts the hybrid system in a neutral glide. That is simple one pedal driving.

    Plug ins that have wider range one pedal driving should have it in the control of the regen braking force on the accelerator.
    Without having driven a Bolt, I can't say if the transition is too aggressive. It seems GM set the brake light trigger at 0.1g of deceleration. US law doesn't have a standard for brake lights and deceleration rates, but Germany does, and its threshold is 0.3g. The e-Golf lights on in the 0.1 to 0.2 range. The i3 is set at 0.13, ...
    "But if you slow down the i3 gradually by coming off the gas pedal in small increments, you could come to a complete stop without giving motorists behind you any warning. If the driver following is inattentive in real-world stop-and-go traffic, the lack of red lights in his/her peripheral vision can potentially lead to the i3 being rear ended."
    Beware Tailgating a BMW i3 - Consumer Reports News
    I'd rather have too aggressive brake lights than none at all.

    Why? Does the blended brakes have hard ware needed for Autopilot to control the friction brakes not present on standard ones?

    Wasn't sure about passenger trains. I tend to think of them as electric since most I see are just that.

    It's a good day. I got to read about trains.

    Dynamic braking | Trains Magazine

    Turns out that regenerative braking came before dynamic.
    "Dynamic braking's ancestor was regenerative braking, a feature found in some electric locomotives Regenerative braking was similar to dynamic braking in that wear and tear on wheels and brake shoes was reduced, and train-control was enhanced, but it was different in one important way: the power generated by the motors was not wasted by being dissipated as heat. Instead, the power was returned to the overhead distribution system With their motors functioning as generators, locomotives on downgrade trains could literally provide power to other trains going uphill."
    Doesn't work with modern systems though.
    Dynamic brakes were originally installed on trains only going to service rails in the mountains, but they've moved out to all trains. Some locomotives had batteries for regen; sounds like these are mostly used for yard work shuffling cars around.
    Blended braking is available, but there doesn't appear to be a hard rule on what types of trains use them. I actually don't see a need for it in most cased, but it might be smoother rides for passengers.
    Ah, memories. My first car was a 1986 Park Avenue. It had a set of LEDs at the base of the windshield. A small strip of them; easy too miss. They lit up to the corresponding blinkers and and parking lights to let you know they were working. There also a set at the top of the rear window that could easily be seen in the rearview mirror was set right for the rear lights.
     
  9. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Yep, basically, the same technology used to blend brakes by modulating fluid completely electronically can be used to control friction brakes in Autopilot. They don't actually need the pedal position sensor, though, but they need everything else, and it'll help make a transition between AP braking and driver input feel more natural, too.

    AFAIK, there are some new urban rail systems being designed around regenerative braking into a flywheel bank at each station. Variable frequency drives have made this kind of thing far more workable. (They've also made regen itself more workable, because you no longer have to set up the drivetrain for regenerative braking, as in brushed DC systems, and you get more power over a wider speed range.)
     
  10. Grodd

    Grodd New Member

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    I haven't seen too many manual transmission cars with the brake lights coming on during rapid down shifting. ;)
     
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Excellent point. IMO, not activating brake lights is far more dangerous than activating brake lights when the car is slowing ;)
     
  12. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    That post looks very familiar. :p
     
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