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I changed the oil but not the filter

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by draheim, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. draheim

    draheim Member

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    I've got a 2010 Prius with about 16k miles and the oil hadn't been changed in almost a year. In that time my records show I've driven only about 2100 miles, but because that's mostly short, in-city driving I figured it was still time to do the oil change. I generally do this myself, but last time (June 2013) I had it done at the dealership as part of a larger maintenance package I'd gotten a special deal on.

    Anyway, apparently when they changed the filter they didn't just hand-tighten it because there was no way this thing was coming off. So last night, after draining the oil and struggling on and off for more than an hour using various techniques (I have the specially fitted oil filter removal tool that attaches to a socket wrench, but I also tried a couple other tools I have in the garage), I decided to just leave the filter in there and refill the engine with 4 quarts of fresh Toyota synthetic oil. I couldn't drive the car somewhere to get assistance without oil in the engine, so I didn't really feel like I had a choice. Next time I'll have to take the car in before draining the oil and have it done, and make sure to ask them to hand-tighten the filter so that the time after that I'll be able to change the oil myself again.

    Anyway, how big of a deal is this? I know that ideally I should change the filter with every oil change, but given the low mileage since the last filter change is this something to be concerned about? For now I'm thinking I'll just go until sometime in early 2015 before changing the oil again, as I average only 3k per year. But I don't like the idea of having some of the old grit in there since June 2013.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Okinawa

    Okinawa Senior Member

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    I follow the Toyota Maintenance Manual instructions. If I were you I would do the same but that it is your decision.
     
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    It probably isn't that big of a deal, you only put 2100 miles on the car since the last change. Changing the oil is just fine.

    Why aren't you taking part in the Toyotacare, free service for the first 25,000 miles?
     
  4. draheim

    draheim Member

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    I believe Toyota started offering that only after I purchased the vehicle (March 2010). If I can somehow get in on that retroactively, I would definitely be interested.
     
  5. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    no big deal, all that's offered in the first 25,000 are oil changes and tire rotations.
     
  6. draheim

    draheim Member

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    That's all I've really needed so far, so it would be nice to have. But probably not available since it wasn't offered at the time.
     
  7. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    If it were me, I'd schedule the next convenient date to get the filter changed at the dealer. Which will probable be about a month from now meaning I would've put 2000 miles on the new oil and old filter. So yeah, I'm with you. Get it done in 2015.

    Pure speculation here; Toyota recommends 10k or 1 year OCI. The reason is because the oil may get old or contaminated. The filter? Well it didn't get to filter 10k miles worth of oil. Is it still spent? I'd argue no, it's only served a portion of its useful life. But I am not a mechanic.


    iPhone ?
     
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  8. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Oil filter for 2K miles, not really a big deal. Just change it next time. 4 quarts does seem a little much for a non-dry engine without changing the filter. After letting it sit I would double check the dipstick. It is easy to overfill these little cars.
     
  9. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    How long was the ratchet or bar you attached to the filter cap wrench? 8 inch? Add an 18" to 24" length of pipe to it and that filter will easily break free. You can also buy an inexpensive (under $20.00) 18" long, 1/2" drive, torque wrench that will get the filter off and also allow you to torque the new one on at 18 lb/ft and prevent the problem in the future.

    I suggest you at least replace the old filter, and to be thorough the oil too because the four quarts you put in were contaminated by the old oil remaining in the unchanged filter.

    If you can't do the above, take it to the dealer and have them do a proper oil change. It pays to do things correctly.
     
  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    The OP has only gone 2100 miles since his last oil change and it's a fairly new car. There is no harm in changing his oil and not his filter with 2000 miles worth of use on the filter. I doubt there was even reason for him to do the oil change in the first place (other than the time specified in the manual), if he tested the oil that was taken out, surely that oil would've tested fine and not contaminated.
     
  11. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    You are dead right. My Dad has always changed the filter every second oil change. He changes his oil every 5k Kms as he tows 3-5 tons almost everyday. He has been doing for this for probably millions of miles/kilometres with no hassle. If you saw the length of some of the service intervals on some cars (20-30k miles) it'll be grand
     
  12. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    A torque wrench should not be used as a breaker bar. Especially if you want it to function accurately as a torque wrench for much longer. :eek:
     
  13. draheim

    draheim Member

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    Yes, about 8" for the ratchet. I tried extending it, but the metal extension piece I had on hand wasn't very strong. Next time I'll probably buy a length of pipe specifically for this purpose, or pick up a longer ratchet, but I think 18" to 24" would be too long, as the other end would probably hit the ground before I could even turn the wrench. I use ramps to elevate the front end of the vehicle, but they're probably only about 8" to 10" high. I'd guess the distance between the filter and the ground when the car is up on the ramps is probably only about 18", maybe even less.

    Obviously my main concern is about whether it's now worth the cost to immediately change the oil again in order to also replace the filter, as this oil isn't cheap (I bought a case back when I bought the car, and these were the last four quarts out of that box). My thinking was that yes, there's some residual contaminated oil in the filter but that will be "diluted" somewhat by the new oil. Not ideal, but given the circumstances my only other options after draining the oil would have been to (1) pour the old oil back in and take it somewhere (which I actually didn't think about until just now), or (2) do what I did.

    Or maybe I could take it in now and they could drain the oil into a clean container, change the filter, and then put the same oil back in. Maybe I'll call the dealership service dept. and ask what they think...
     
  14. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Depending on how honest the dealer will be, chances are, they would want to part your money from your wallet.
     
  15. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Did you disengage the metal clip before trying to remove the filter housing?
     
  16. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    Only 2100 miles driven in almost a year implies short trip driving which can be severe service. The OP could have waited until June, but he chose to unnecessarily change the oil sooner. Had he done a proper oil change, he would be OK now, but he didn't. The recommended safe OCI is 10,000 miles on a new filter and fresh oil, NOT an old filter and contaminated oil. What is the safe OCI for that? No one can say. He needs to get the job done correctly, not be penny-wise and pound foolish, or delude himself into thinking that its OK to do things halfway and not expect problems in the future. Its easy for you to say he doesn't need to do a proper oil change because it is his car at risk, not yours.
     
  17. draheim

    draheim Member

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    I didn't test the oil (is there a specific test for that besides looking at it?) but it was very black. Yes, this change was probably premature, I just wanted to get it done while I was thinking of it and had the available time as I sometimes tend to procrastinate.
     
  18. draheim

    draheim Member

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    Here's where things could get ugly in this thread. No, I didn't. I didn't recall removing it last time I did this, and when it didn't easily come off I just left it as-is. This was probably a mistake.
     
  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You can get a free kit from these guys......only if you're interested

    Blackstone Labs
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The metal clip on the oil filter housing is a very frivolous little bit of metal. I don't think it's effective (at whatever it's supposed to be effective at, lol). I've had the housing off on ours maybe 1/2 dozen times now, don't pay it much attention.

    I would not ask the dealership to "hand tighten" the oil filter. I would ask them to tighten it "to spec". That's somewhat more than hand tighten, using a torque wrench. Haven't got the value handy, could post tonight. It's something around 15 ft/lbs I think. They should know. Speaking of which:

    Were they the guys that spun it on last? If so let them know about it!

    Regarding your original question, leaving on the filter with an oil change:

    This is the norm with Honda Civics, for one. The Maintenance Minder alternates between oil change only and oil and filter change. So no big deal. The only thing: the dealerships go squirrely if you ask them to follow Honda's guidance, pretty much insisting on changing the filter every time, and/or calling the customer an idiot on the bill.

    What I did with our Civic when I got fed up with the dealership and started doing my own oil changes, and it seemed a good compromise, was: at an oil change only service, I would remove the filter, pour out the contained oil, then re-install it.
     
  21. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    It will not hurt a 150 lb/ft rated torque wrench, even a cheap $20.00 torque wrench, to loosen an oil filter cap that is over-tightened to probably less than 75 lb/ft. It is unlikely that the cap is tightened to anywhere near 150 lb/ft because that would probably be destructive to the cap, but even if it is the wrench would still not be damaged in this instance. Who cares if a $20.00 wrench is damaged?