I did a test drive on the CMax

Discussion in 'Ford/Lincoln Hybrids and EVs' started by jhinsc, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    I am looking to replace my 2010 Prius IV, and have the Prius v 5 in mind. I did drive a Camry Hybrid and even the Camry SE (low lease deal), but didn't like lack of trunk space in the Hybrid and the SE's ride was too stiff. The v fits the bill for me for everything I would want in a car. Even through I had eliminated the CMax, I thought I should do so until after I've driven one, which I did yesterday on the way home from work. Below is my brief subjective analysis of the CMax SE:

    Likes: I loved the way the doors sound when closed; the ride is quiet, smooth, and insulated; the car seems very solid and tight;
    Dislikes: Because the car is so quiet and solid, you can tell it weighs 600 lbs more then my current Prius; in spite of the smooth ride, you can tell the wheelbase is much shorter making for a busier ride; throttle tip-in is way too aggressive - the ICE kicks in almost immediately; there is no Eco or EV mode to manage it; as you can guess, I didn't get anywhere near 47 mpg - it was just over 38 mpg; the interior seems very useful, except for the raised floor in the back; although useful, the storage didn't seem much larger than my current Prius; being an SE model, I had to use the key AND gear shift selector - I'm spoiled; the overall styling inside and out.

    Realizing my review is subjective, overall it's not my cup of tea. I consistently get 51 -53 without trying in the Prius. I would have to work hard to keep my mileage over 40-42 mpg in the CMax - it shouldn't be that hard!

    I think my next test drive will be the Jetta Hybrid, just to say I drove it before eliminating it off my list!
     
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  2. skwcrj

    skwcrj Member

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    Get the vee wagon. You will love it.
     
  3. Ronald Kramer

    Ronald Kramer New Member

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  4. Ronald Kramer

    Ronald Kramer New Member

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    Open letter to Ford:
    I thought my 2013 C-MAX would be a Prius Killer? NOT! As a returning Ford buyer I feel deceived. I want to support US companies and US jobs. What was Ford thinking when they published 47/ 47/47 estimates? Based on the advertised EPA estimates, I would have been ok with low 40's but 28-33 mpg is not even in the ballpark. This is not an issue about EPA testing standards, but rather an issue about setting false customer expectations in order to promote sales. Ford's "47MPG" marketing campaign tarnished what should have been the roll out of a truly remarkable vehicle, the CMAX. Real world MPG estimates should have been promoted in the mid-30's. No one would have questioned those numbers and the CMAX would have received the accolades it deserves. How these MPG estimates made it through Ford corporate is beyond me! Maybe it was the rush to go to market?

    I have been accused of not knowing how to drive hybrid. For the record, during the last three years I have leased both a 2010 Prius and 2010 Honda Insight Hybrid, and consider myself an experienced hyper-miler. My mileage in the Prius is 50 plus, the Insight is 40 plus. The C-MAX is a well-built car, with extremely inflated EPA estimates.

    I respectfully request that this matter be investigated as soon as possible. My efforts to deal with this locally and through Ford customer service have frustrated me to no end. The constant response? "You need to learn to how to drive hybrid type of vehicle ". Is there a difference how I drive Prius Hybrid vs. the CMAX hybrid? I think we all know the answer to that. I need someone at Ford to reach out to me and assist in a proactive manner so we can put this matter to rest. I have opted not to join the class action lawsuit regarding this matter in order to explore my resolution options with Ford directly feeling this was the most honest approach to the matter. Can I expect the same from Ford in return?

    Respectfully submitted,

    Ronald Kramer
    Yankee Ford Customer
    South Portland, Maine

    PO Box 2517
    South Portland, ME 04116
     
  5. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :)When I became interested in purchasing a hybrid vehicle, my first thought was Toyota. They had plenty of experience and tons of loyal and satisfied customers. I spent two weeks here reading up and learning. At the last second, I was swayed by the positive comments of actual Prius Plug In owners and post of the special incentives on remaining 2012s. I saved my self the mistake of buying a 2013 Prius 5, and not the 2012 Prius Plug In Advance I chose.
     
  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I read your post on the CMAX forum too. :)

    So far it seems like every hybrid vehicle has some sort of compromise. Ford raised our hopes with the aggressive ad campaign for the CMAX but it turns out it let us down with the fuel economy. However, the CMAX is still a pretty nice car and if you can handle lower mpg and a weird trunk layout then it is still viable competition for the Prius v. Most of the CMAX owners seem to love them.
     
  7. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    F8L, I keep in mind that most posters in forums who comment about their vehicle of choice (Prius, CMax, etc) are positive since 1) they spent their own money on the vehicle, and 2) to justify the purchase they made. So posters who profess their Prius or CMax is the greatest car ever built, I take with a grain of salt. Same goes for those who trash them. As far as the CMax's mileage, I think most of it can be solved by eliminating the aggressive throttle tip-in just off idle. It's a blast to drive, which is part of the problem. But I also can't get around the cargo space weirdness with the raised bump - it's not much larger than the Prius Hatchback. The Prius V is looking like it will be my next vehicle. If I could design my own car, I would like the solid, quiet ride of the CMax, with the drivetrain and mileage of the Prius Hatchback, wrapped in a Prius V body.
     
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  8. Grandpa Gone Wild

    Grandpa Gone Wild New Member

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    I'm loyal to my pocket$ not a particular brand :D
     
  9. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Your presentation reminds me of some lawyer's presentations I've seen, well done, effective, use a set of facts to your advantage but ultimately having little relationship with the real world reality of the way things happen.

    So if you demo drive at a time when there is very little traffic, accelerate extremely slowly, always drive 10 miles slower than the speed limit, have everybody else passing you like you were standing still, drive on only flat roads, don't use the HVAC ... you can get 47 MPG.

    Not the way I want/need/have to drive Grandpa Gone Wild (and I'm a three time grandpa). My world has traffic signals I stop for, hills I go up and down, passing, moving lanes to help people merge, other passengers, a load in the trunk, and maintaining the speed limit, HVAC on, etc. From the reports on fuelly, I get slightly less than the average Prius v owner but some of that may be I've only owned it in what for NC has been a cold winter. And my frequent longer trips are on 70MPH roads in traffic, I don't have a lane to myself as you seem to have had in this demo. Every time I drive a mile on the cold and actually ask for heat, then park it for a while and come back home I know I'm killing the average MPG. Plus I'm not obsessed with watching a meter, I have people I don't want to kill. I suspect driving the C-Max on my routes you'd not be even close based on what owners tell me they are getting. And people don't get mad at the way I'm blocking traffic as they would if I drove like you did.

    So you showed it could be done just as people have shown a Prius v could get 50 MPG. But not driving either the way most people seem to want/need/actually drive and there is the disconnect between the heavily advertised MPG and the actual. The C-Max doesn't come close to the EPA for most people and the Prius does ... just see fuelly.

    And while I'm doing this, I have 30% to 60% more luggage space than the C-Max does.

    Neither car is perfect (I've listed the things I don't like about the Prius elsewhere so it isn't like I'm a blind to its faults fanboy) but misleading marketing just doesn't impress me. Actual real world day in and day out do what the car was designed to do performance does impress.
     
  10. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Mike, I think you are confusing posts. Grandpa Gone Wild drives a used GenII and simply posted the ridiculous video. I don't think he was trying to support the CMAX and that driving style. :)
     
  11. RAL

    RAL Member

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    Hey wild Gramps..the worst mileage I have gotten in my 2012 Prius was just over 44 MPG. That was driving in power mode leaving surprised folks way behind at stop lights, just whipping around. If I drive my Prius in the painful snail mode your video shows the Prius can bust 60MPG. It ain't easy but it can be done. I considered the C-Max but the REAL world MPG is quite disappointing. Keep working on it competition is good;)

    RAL
     
  12. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    He doesn't own a CMAX.


     
  13. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    Watched the CMax video - too bad it doesn't match real world driving conditions. I did drive the Jetta Hybrid today and it was a very interesting drive. Car felt tight and quiet, but the combo of the turbo and hybrid made for uneven takeoff from stops. You can tell you start off in EV mode and I think the little 1.4 liter engine kicks too, but you don't really feel anything until rpms get high enough for the turbo to kick in. I got it up to 39.7 mpg - not bad for my first drive. We also let it idle a few minutes while adjusting everything, something I don't normally do. I followed up with a test drive in the Jetta TDI and Passat TDI - loved both! The torque was addictive, especially in the lighter Jetta, and it was easy to get 40 mpg on the same loop as the Jetta Hybrid. Now I'm in a quandary about what to do. I thought I was settled on the Prius V and from a cargo space and functionality perspective, it makes the most sense for me. I'm going to have to give this some further thought...
     
  14. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    Watched the CMax video - too bad it doesn't match real world driving conditions. I did drive the Jetta Hybrid today and it was a very interesting drive. Car felt tight and quiet, but the combo of the turbo and hybrid made for uneven takeoff from stops. You can tell you start in EV mode and I think the little 1.4 liter engine kicks too, but you don't really feel anything until rpms get high enough for the turbo to kick in. The highest I could get up to was 39.7 mpg - not bad for my first drive. We also let it idle a few minutes while adjusting everything, something I don't normally do. I followed up with a test drive in the Jetta TDI and Passat TDI - loved both! The torque was addictive, especially in the lighter Jetta, and it was easy to get 40 mpg on the same loop as the Jetta Hybrid. Now I'm in a quandary about what to do. I thought I was settled on the Prius V and from a cargo space and functionality perspective, it makes the most sense for me. I'm going to have to give this some further thought...
     
  15. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Spend some time on the TDi forums before you start thinking seriously about a VW. I like the idea of the TDi but the emissions equipment and fuel pump stuff scares me.
     
  16. CheeseheadPrius

    CheeseheadPrius Junior Member

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    I spent time on those forums before getting my Prius and the HPFP issue scared me, along with the DSG trans. But that was in 2010 and I would have thought those early model issues have been cleared up. Haven't been back there much since. I almost bought a JSW TDI but glad I read the TDI forums and got my Prius..
     
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  17. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    Actually the TDI's are off my list now. I did some initial reading, but after I put the numbers into my spreadsheet for comparison, even when the TDI can be had for a lower price, over 5 years at 20k miles/yr, it's still slightly negative in terms of cost vs the Prius V. The main issue is the $.50 difference in diesel vs gas in my area. When fuel price go up, the difference gets larger, and with the added maintenance costs, I can't justify it. There was a day when I would totally go for the TDI just for joy of driving it - omg, when I did become so practical?!
     
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  18. Richard Bresowar

    Richard Bresowar New Member

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    In our household we have a 2012 V, a 2013 Prius 3, and a 2008. My two cents is I'm really glad to see Ford trying to get in the hybrid business seriously. We have had very positive experience with Prius and did not really shop Ford. I really like most everything on the Prius V, but my wife drives it most of the time. This is totally unscientific. BTW my mileage is about 50 on the Prius 3, she seems to get 43 or so on the V with no effort whatsoever to hypermile. She just drives it like a normal American, which means accelerating to stops etc. Drives me nuts.
     
  19. Grandpa Gone Wild

    Grandpa Gone Wild New Member

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    By the way that's not my vid.......I'm a true blue diehard Ford Guy ....always love my Fords but I bought the Prius based on real world data reflecting it could get excellent fuel mpg. My average work car sees a 45,000 mile commute a year. I researched the Ford and was not satisfied by the real world mpg numbers. Next was the Prius and the data was impressive so that was what I purchased. The vid shows you can get the numbers but looked like it was downhill a lot. I have popped 96 mpg on the Prius display on a short 12 mile commute with decent 75 % of the way but two way average was in the 60's ( still impressive) I have owned the prius almost 3 weeks and have covered 2600 miles with a 55 mpg total average (Fillup average not from display). Sorry for the confusion.......hope this explains it better.

    I'm loyal to my pocket$ not a particular brand :D

     
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  20. NorthAustin

    NorthAustin New Member

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    We recently bought a Prius V and love it. First hybrid and first Toyota. We were leaning toward the C Max before test driving both.

    The C Max virtually defeats its purpose right of the bat. It is closer to a regular Prius in cargo room than the V.

    And the V really earned its V. If you aren't hauling family stuff or camping, put the rear bench back and it is almost limo room. Back seats recline as well. I don't need a race car. I want a smooth comfortable ride. V delivers. Once we test drove it wasn't close, V all the way. To me Ford made a 'small SUV' that isn't. Too small, dead on arrival IF that is what you want.
     
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