I found something I like about France!!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daronspicher, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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  2. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    Unfortunately, i can't speak towards other countries in this regard all that much. The ties between church and state in European countries are much stronger than they are here, so for them it may be that the law was designed to support a religious matter.

    However, note at the end of the article where it says that couples living together, whether they are opposite sex or same sex couples, enjoy the same benefits under law as do married couples. That point is what has been the big contention here in the US - same sex couples want those same benefits on their taxes, etc as married couples.

    I'll state again, as i have in other threads, that marriage is religious thing. If the church doesn't want to marry same sex couples, it certainly has the right to do so. The government, however, should afford the same benefits to couples of all constitutions, provided they all file some sort of paperwork declaring them to legally be a couple (which i believe has to be done now for marriages anyways).
     
  3. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 14 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]405313[/snapback]</div>
    Not just couples either... Three, four, fourty... why limit to couples, non-relatives and why humans... let's not limit this to folks over 18 either, let's have 5 year olds legally married to the family dog as well. Everyone, every animal, and everything married to whatever or whoever with no restrictions.
     
  4. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 09:13 AM) [snapback]405316[/snapback]</div>
    Where the heck do you get that from?

    Their law, as stated in this article (i have to admit i haven't actually read their law, and don't care to, ours is complicated enough), applies to couples only. It doesn't say anything about animals, and neither did I.

    Your response is the typical, narrow minded philosophy that is normally seen amongst opponents to gay marriage. "OMG an adult male wants to marry another adult male? If we allow that, then we have to allow all these other depravities!"

    Simply allowing gay marriages or unions, or at the minimum granting them the same rights under law as straight married couples does absolutely nothing to effect the other laws that govern underage individuals and non- Homo sapiens.

    It seems to me that perhaps this isn't actually something you like about France.
     
  5. livelychick

    livelychick Missin' My Prius

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 10:13 AM) [snapback]405316[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks, Rick Santorum. Please go back to doing whatever it is you're doing now that you got voted OUT OF OFFICE LAST NOVEMBER!!!!

    This is such an inane comment. I cannot believe you need someone to explain to you the difference between a long-term committed, adult, human-to-human relationship and anything else.
     
  6. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 14 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]405336[/snapback]</div>
    Why do you feel that you have the right definition and that it should be 'committed, adult, human-to-human'. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would like to include 'casual, minor, and human-to-object or human-to-animal'.

    What's your basis to be so discriminitory and limiting to others who don't believe the way you do? Do you just think up what you want and think that everyone should have to fit in that definition?

    You're so closed minded!!
     
  7. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 02:13 PM) [snapback]405316[/snapback]</div>
    I'll give you a serious answer even though, I suspect, you don't want one.

    The reason is that the preponderance of society believes it to be right.
     
  8. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hobbs @ Mar 14 2007, 10:01 AM) [snapback]405345[/snapback]</div>
    As proven by having 26 of 27 states that have put state constitutional amendments up for a vote passing protection of 1man-1woman marriage? Is that what you mean by preponderance of society? In that case, let's shoot for a federal amendment.



     
  9. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    One law at a time, Daron... I'm sure if you push hard enough, you'll be able to get your state to acknowledge your short term relationships with the stray cats and their strap-ons.

    Seriously, what are you thinking? I'll take each of your points in hand here:

    When we say committed relationship, all that means is that you have enough commitment to file the paperwork. Look at these celebrity marriages. Some of them only last a month, a week, or even a day! And yet for that short time they do enjoy the legal benefits of that union.

    The laws against minors being involved in what is considered to be an adult relationship are completely separate from the ones we're talking about. Allowing marriage between same sex couples in no way degrades our protection of children. It doesn't even imply that it should be degraded.

    Legal benefits of marriage currently include items like joint filing for your taxes, medical coverage for your spouse, next-of-kin privilege/responsibility, and the like. Show me an inanimate object that files for taxes, needs medical care, and can make decisions, and by all means you can marry it.

    Likewise, animals have been granted no legal rights. When dogs are granted the right to own property, pay taxes, and vote, then you can consider marrying one.

    The thing is, a law has to fit in with all the other laws around it. Extending the right for a legal union and all of its benefits to same sex couples doesn't mean that all those other laws just go away.
     
  10. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]405341[/snapback]</div>
    Because having sex with a minor or an animal is illegal?

    To answer the obvious straw-man question I know you'll ask: Because minors and animals (and inanimate objects) can't give informed consent.
     
  11. Michgal007

    Michgal007 Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 09:13 AM) [snapback]405316[/snapback]</div>
    I am neutral to homosexual marriages. It really doesn't concern me if they can or cannot get married. If they can, good for them! There are other issues I would spend my time pondering about... like the woman who is getting raped at the moment you are reading my post or the few children who took their last breath because of hunger.

    That said, this comment made me laugh out loud. I think it's funny.
     
  12. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    The only reason i feel so strongly for it is because denying it is nothing more than hatred, bigotry, and oppression. Way back in the day, it was recognized that women couldn't own property, and that blacks were property. We went through a civil war to free the blacks and grant them the same rights as everyone else. We also went through a huge movement (mostly peaceful) to grant women the same rights as men.

    Now you're talking about denying certain couples rights based on their personal choices. Talk about bigotry - "You aren't like me, so I'm not giving you these benefits!"
     
  13. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 14 2007, 03:09 PM) [snapback]405349[/snapback]</div>
    As far as I know 0 of the 50 states have put state constitutional amendments up for a vote passing protection of discrimination against gay couples.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 14 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]405313[/snapback]</div>
    Civil partnerships are legal here, living as I do in the 51st State.
     
  14. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    Why is this illegal, and do you think it should be? If someone wants to do it, why do you think you have basis to deny them? It may not seem right to you and your closed mind, but to them it's their right!!

    Why do they need to give consent for the other involved to exercise his/her personal choice? What gives you the right to say that because you believe you need two(or more) consenting things/people that everyone needs consenting parites? This is as closed minded as the last arguement.


    I'm in Illinois, we have a democrat govenor who will probably push through a law making what you suggest mandatory and then fund the program with a tax increase on us.

    My grandparents are still married at 65 years, let's use that as the benchmark rather than brittney spears. I don't think allowing polygamy, homosexual marriage and cow-minor-uncle marriages will be the solution to what Brittney is doing.

    Another closed minded statement. You should be a champion for removing any laws that restrict peoples choices. If a 15 year old boy wants to marry his grandma, shouldn't you be on his side? Especially if he can get a tax break, or a piece of her social security check.

    On a serious note, I think 1man-1woman only marriage is the safe, right place for children to grow up. All these other scenerios are harmful to kids and will really screw them up for life. But, that's only my closed minded opinnion, let's get back to discussing your closed mind.

    Is filing taxes the basis for who can be married? If my lampshade can't pay taxes, it can't be married to the dog and/or the goldfish? If you were more tolerant, you'd be a champion for the rights of people to marry their car and get healthcare coverage (wellcare for things like tires and oil changes, sick care for blown engines, broken windows).

    Let's work together on this to get legal rights for animals to own property, pay taxes and have their day in court. We could spend billions in state and federal funds to figure out what the dog is thinking so that we can know their decisions in these matters.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 14 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]405362[/snapback]</div>
    Apparently you aren't a polygomist or a guy wanting to marry his dog and sister so you sir are closed minded, biggoted and an all around hateful individual. Way back in the day, woman couldn't own property and blacks were property and homosexual marriage wasn't on the radar. Now all that's changed, but you can't leap forward into the year 2007 and recognize the discrimination and <strike>human</strike> rights violations going on here.
     
  15. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    You sir are laughable. It's very, very clear that any sane, reasonable argument made against you will be met with ridicule and nonsensical arguments.

    Happy hunting sir. I hope a new stray comes by your place today.
     
  16. livelychick

    livelychick Missin' My Prius

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    Seriously, daron, your comments are inane. Totally.

    Eagle answered your inane points with validity.

    And, you're wrong about the 1-man, 1-woman is the best place for a child. It can be, but it also doesn't always work out, either. (Remember the Menendez brothers?)

    IMHO, love, guidance, and discipline are the ways to raise kids, be it from a single mom ( :) ) or a mom/dad or a mom/mom or a dad/dad or a single dad. Or hell, even a grandparent.

    I know you don't agree with this, and that's it's OT, so you don't have to go off the deep end about it.
     
  17. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 14 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]405388[/snapback]</div>
    Well said.

    Daron, do you have any statistics to back up your claim that all situations other than 1-man, 1-woman married households are harmful to kids? What are the number of criminals that comes from such households? What are the number that come from a same-sex household? (i'll give you a hint - There are many, many more that come from 1-man, 1-woman households)

    Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean it will scar kids for life. My parents separated and got a divorce. It effected me a great deal, and it's something that i'm still dealing with. IMO, that is much, much worse than any effect on me should i have had same-sex parents growing up (through adoption or whatever).

    So by all means, if we want to keep children out of same sex marriages, we should also outlaw divorce! And fighting! Gosh darn it, all these married couples made a vow, and it should be law that they uphold those vows to always love and cherish each other until death parts them.
     
  18. jimmyrose

    jimmyrose Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 14 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]405313[/snapback]</div>
    Excellent reply! Although, I wish you would have stopped here, because the rest of your replies (and some others), were far less effective; not in their content, mind you, but due to the target audience.

    Might I suggest in the future just banging your head against the wall? More painful, perhaps, but probably far less frustrating... :lol:
     
  19. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    Perhaps Daron is a devoted follower of anti-abortion advocate Neal Horsley, who talked about having sex with a mule during an interview on Fox's Alan Colmes show.

    Horsley: Hey, Alan, if you want to accuse me of having sex when I was a fool, I did everything that crossed my mind that looked like I . . .

    Colmes: You had sex with animals?

    Horsley: Absolutely. I was a fool. When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule.

    Colmes: I'm not so sure that that is so.

    Horsley: You didn't grow up on a farm in Georgia, did you?

    Colmes: Are you suggesting that everybody who grows up on a farm in Georgia has a mule as a girlfriend?

    Horsley: It has historically been the case. You people are so far removed from the reality. . . . Welcome to domestic life on the farm. You experiment with anything that moves when you are growing up sexually. You're naive. You know better than that. . . . If it's warm and it's damp and it vibrates, you might in fact have sex with it.

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0520,mond...t1,64168,6.html

    Perhaps animal sex is part of the rightwing agenda? Hence the worry that homosexual rights could be extended and... cur-tail this activity? :p :D :D
     
  20. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    Oh, but it's extremely entertaining to read the replies we've gotten! It's like reading a nice fantasy story where the rabbits do nothing but multiply, and we've got cross-species breeds like centaurs and fauns. Not to mention objects that have a mind of their own!
     
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