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I just got a Prius! (And now I have to work on it!)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Isaac Zachary, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    So I'm getting close to having time to work on the Prius. I finally did my first oil change on it. Since the previous owner claims it burns oil on the freeway, and everything I find seems to point to that probably being clogged oil control rings, I did the oil change this way:

    1. I warmed up the engine to around 180⁰F.
    2. I took out the sparkplugs to inspect them (they looked very good, almost brand new with some black oily stuff down around near the threaded part)
    3. I also poured some Chemtool B-12 down in the cylinders to let the rings soak. I only threaded the sparkplugs back in at this point.
    4. After a couple hours I torqued down the sparkplugs to spec and installed the coil packs.
    5. I turned the crankshaft by the pulley/dampener around a couple times to make sure there wouldn't be any chance of hydrolocking. I was a able to do this by hand.
    6. I also poured some LiquidMoly engine flush into the oil.
    7. Then I started the car and kept my foot on the accelerator so as to keep the engine running. Some of the time I would keep the RPMs low and other times I would for it which would give me around 2,500rpm according to the Torque app.
    8. I also floored it in Drive a couple times to charge up the HV battery which is what I've been doing about once a month. Voltages are still within 0.2-0.3V between all the blocks.
    9. After ten minutes I shut off the engine and drained the oil.
    10. Then I got stuck on removing the oil filter. I ended up resorting to using a pair of channel locks to get it to budge. The previous owner sure had this torqued down. It was about three full turns before I could turn it by hand. It came out all mangled up and punctured from the channel locks.
    11. I the oil plug didn't seem to have a gasket (odd, shouldn't it?) and the gaskets for the Avalon didn't seem to work so I bought a pack from O'reilly's. I'll order Toyota ones for the next oil change.
    12. I installed the oil filter (Toyota ZZ brand) and followed the instructions on the box to turn only 3/4 turn after gasket makes contact.
    13. I poured in about 3.5qt of GTMO 5W-30.
    14. I also changed the air filter (Toyota brand).
    I also have the cabin filter to change and picked up some Toyota transmission fluid to change that. I also got the work bearing in and ready to change that. I do need to install the headlights after bending the frame parts back out which isn't too badly bent. After that it should be pretty much ready to go. I do need to order the front license plate holder.
     
  2. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    One thing I am worried about now is that from what I understand, these types of sparkplug gaskets are a one time use crushable gasket. Maybe someone here can confirm if this is true or if I'm just paranoid. I'd like to find some sort of replacement and maybe do a compression test when I replace them.

    EDIT:
    I went ahead and ordered some sparkplugs from parts.toyota.com. That way I won't be paranoid about the crushable washer. I hate wasting money, but better to be safe than sorry.

    Here's a pic of the old plugs:
    PXL_20210331_204151887.jpg
     
    #102 Isaac Zachary, Apr 1, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  3. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    After a lot of procrastination, I have a cylinder scope on order. When I get it I will figure out the condition of the cylinders and keep on going from there. I still need to put in the new plugs, but will do that once I get the oil problem figured out.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    There shouldn’t be a problem, removing (say to inspect/clean) plugs, and reinstalling. Just torque to spec (see attached) as usual.
     

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    #104 Mendel Leisk, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
  5. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Not much to figure out. If the engine uses lots of oil (ie, no significant external leaks) you pretty much 99%+ need internal engine work. Rings or another engine. Valve stem /seal problems are much less common then they used to be.

    That under 1% "other" is a very small possibilty that a freak PCV valve failure (or a bad baffle in the valve cover) is allowing the system to "pull" oil from the crankcase. Theoretically possible but I've only seen it a few times in 30 years, and never on a Toyota.

    Tough to confirm on a Prius because the Atkinson cycle design and stop/start operation allows some oil to pool in the intake with normal use.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  6. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    We'll see once the scope comes in. If the cylinders are toast there is no re-honing that can be done. So bad cylinders means new block or just junk the car and live without it. If it's piston rings only then that's something I can deal with. Even new pistons would not be as expensive as a new engine. Or I guess I could do a used engine.
     
  7. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Well, bad news.

    I got my scope in today and looked inside each cylinder. In all of them there was some sort of grooves in the sides of the cylinders. And what is worse, in at least three of them there are chunks of cylinder sleeve that are missing. So the block is junk, there's nothing that can be done.

    So... it needs:
    • An engine block
    • An HV battery
    • And a California compliant catalyitc converter
    Not to mention several other details like a new wheel bearing, new windshield and a 12V battery.
     

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  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I wonder what bounced around in there? Could you see any damage on piston surface or cylinder head?
     
  9. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I didn't see any damage to the tops of the pistons. This is clearly the result of piston rings that have been stuck for too long of time. The fact that it happened in at least 3 of the cylinders and on the same side of the cylinder makes it pretty obvious it was ring related.
     
  10. mackin21

    mackin21 New Member

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    Sounds similar to my engine. Look around for a gen 4 engine. They can be found with low miles and reasonable price. I got one for 1800 delivered but I’m sure you can find one for more or less depending on how much time you have.
     
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  11. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement!

    So a gen 4 engine will work in a gen 2 Prius?

    The thing is the car needs a lot of other work. It needs a California compliant catalytic converter and an HV battery as well. The question is, would it be worth fixing? On the one hand it seems like I could pour way more money into the car than what it's actually worth. In other words, say I get a $1,800 engine, a $1,800 catalytic converter and a $1,800 HV battery. That's $3,800 worth of parts, plus the time to install them, yet if the car got totaled the day after all that work the insurance company would probably give me a $2,000 check and take the car.

    On the other hand, for $4,000 to $6,000 it's hard these days to find a decent car. At least if I did all that I'd know the car would last a long time, as the major parts would be new or newish, instead of a $6,000 car that could very well end up having a similar problem.
     
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  12. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I can get a brand new 1NZFXE..NHW20 short block (part number 1140180881) for $1,770.78 at a local dealer.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah brand new short blocks are one bit of the engine that's not over-the-moon expensive. Note it's not everything down to the oil pan; there is a split line, maybe 5~6" up from the oil pan, and that component (it's aluminum, called "PAN, SUB-ASSY, OIL") will have to be swapped over.

    More info:

    https://www.amayama.com/en/catalogs/toyota/prius/2-hatchback-left-xw20-2005-r-2819/engine-fuel-system-and-tools-1/cylinder-block-6

    With that link, see what kind of price you get, at your location in USD. This is what I see, in Canada:

    upload_2022-12-4_7-4-12.png

    Dealership is likely competitive, but doesn't hurt to compare. FWIW, the Amayama price and shipping, is all I've ever incurred, no extra sales taxes, duty, etcetera. On small purchases.

    No. The responder likely thought you were dealing with a 3rd gen.
     
    #113 Mendel Leisk, Dec 4, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  14. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Well, you've got some scuffing of the cylinder walls, not great but unless it's worse elsewhere then I'm not too worried about it.

    Those black bits look to be just that- black bits of carbon sitting on the cylinder wall. Probably came loose when you pulled the plugs. Put a wrench on the crank pulley bolt and turn the engine half a revolution and look again.

    You want to use your camera (I assume it has a 90° lens on it) to look carefully at the tops of the cylinder walls just below the head gasket.

    You want to see good crosshatching all the way up. If the wall looks smooth where the rings go at Top Dead Center, then the bores are trashed.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  15. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Here's the other pics I took. A question I have now is if the cylinders are bore-able or not. I was under the impression they weren't but now I'm seeing places that say they are. Still, I can't seem to find stock oversized pistons. PHO-00016.JPG
     

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  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Toyota says they're not. The liners are very thin, and also spiny, which precludes relining also.
     
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  17. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Well, looking at a direct car replacment, I searched Autotempest for another gen 2 Prius with less than 220,000 miles. I found three in a 500 mile radius for $4,000 to nearly $6,000 dollars.

    Now I know it will take time and effort to work on this car, but at those prices, maybe it would be worth looking into replacing the engine and battery and eventually the catalytic converter? Like say I start looking for a low mileage engine or just get a short block and change that, then in 12 months replace the battery if I don't go crazy first from trying to whack moles. Then when I have the money to get a cat I can do that. Maybe by then an aftermarket brand will be approved.
     
  18. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I did a compression test:

    #1 105psi
    #2 110psi
    #3 105psi
    #4 100psi
     
  19. mackin21

    mackin21 New Member

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    Gen 4 won’t work in gen 2. I have gen 3 and I am even having issues lol
     
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