I saved $4 switching to PG&E EV electricity rates

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by mmmodem, May 26, 2013.

  1. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    That's how much money I saved my first month switching from E1 rates to the experimental electric vehicle E9-A TOU rates. I recalculated my bill on standard E1 rates to see the difference. This includes a couple of days where I forgot to press the timer button and got charged $0.52/kWh or almost $2 for a full charge. So I guess if I made no mistakes, I would be at my goal of saving $10 a month.

    If I want to look at the glass as half full, I can say I will save 33% off the cost of charging my PiP by switching to E9-A, from $30 to $20 a month. A full charge now costs me about $0.67 from $1. The only change we've done was waiting until 9pm to wash clothes on weekdays. (We have two rug rats so waiting for weekend rates is undesirable.) The dishwasher is always run past 9pm so no change. We're obviously unwilling to move dinner past 9pm so no change on cooking appliances either.

    So, in conclusion, if you live near me on PG&E and average 400 kWh a month (500 kWh with the PiP), this is what you can expect between the two rates and charging the PiP one full charge a day.
     
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  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    How much does the extra 100 kwh a month cost you now ?
    That is, how much has your bill increased using 400 kwh on the old tariff, to 500 kwh on the new tariff ?
     
  3. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    I have solar panels so the results may be different. However, I'm finding that E9a may not save as much as E6. While the Midnight to 7am rate is considerably less on E9a the extra time and later hours at Peak rate may work against you especially in the hot summer months if you are using air conditioning. Of course you don't need much a/c in Milpitas as compared to Sacramento :) Alternately if one had a Volt or Tesla its clear the E9a rate would be better.
     
  4. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    My bill for April 24 to May 24 is $83.17 for 514 kWh usage. Calculating at my previous E1 rates, it would be $87.39.
    Knock $30 ($0.30 kWh at tier 3) off for 100 kWh associated to PiP charging, $57.39.

    PG&E switched from winter to summer rates on 'May 1st so my numbers would be a little off. By how much, I honestly don't know. I'm just assuming a few cents because I don't want to go through the math any further than I already have.

    25 kWh were charged at $0.52 each. PG&E doesn't have daily usage charts for the whole month yet. But I know of at least 3 instances when I forgot to press the timer. So assuming I become vigilant and can knock 10 of those kWh peak times into off peak usage, I'll arrive at my goal of saving $10 a month.
     
  5. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Agreed. A Volt would make these numbers look a whole lot better. That's another reason I am delaying installing solar panels until my next vehicle with hopefully a larger battery to charge. I'm betting on higher efficiency solar panels in the future that would negate the lost time I could be saving right now.

    I realize these numbers are for a single month with limited AC usage. I'll need a full 12 months to fully realize the savings if any. But my conclusion of this single month's savings of $4, I'd gladly pay it than having that argument with my wife about waiting until 9pm to wash spit rags and poo soiled linen.

    I'm optimistic it'll gets better.
     
  6. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    For the benefit of those in other parts of the country, Milpitas is in the south San Francisco Bay area, and typically there are only a dozen days or so each year where A/C is really useful (high temps above, say, 90F). OTOH, the normal summer high temperatures 100 miles away in the California Central Valley, where Sacramento is, is typically in the 100F+ range. The Alaska current coming down the California coast is what keeps things cool here, and it only gets hot when we get hot air flow coming from the Central Valley.
     
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  7. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Then there's the difference in home prices. When we lived in Palo Alto, Los Altos, Santa Clara we never had A/C and only even thought about it 2 or 3 days a Summer. Of course solar panels work better in Sacramento.
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Thanks for trying to answer my curiosity. Can you check a bill for the period 4/24 - 5/24, before you owned the PiP ?

    Fwiw, I think you are doing OK on your marginal fuel cost for the car. Your marginal rate for electricity is less than 16 cents a kwh since part of your bill is a fixed amount, suggesting your cents/mile from electricity is somewhere around 5 cents compared to 8 cents/mile for the petrol miles.
     
  9. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Sure. I posted results so people can critique it. It gives my conclusions more weight so I can be more confident with my answer when asked what it has been like with a plug in vehicle.

    For the same period last year, my electric bill was $46.75 for 359 kWh. An extra freeloader arrived three months ago, so I'm unlikely to get down to that usage level for another 18 years.

    At $1 a charge, electricity costs per mile was 9 cents which is what prompted the rate change. It was still worth because EV usage pushes my HV fuel economy up. I track EV and HV costs and fuel economy separately on Fuelly. I doubt I would be able to average 60+ mpg on HV alone if EV didn't take up low speed, idling, and other fuel robbing parts of my commute.
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    No critique, but here is my run of the numbers --

    A year ago you spent 4675 cents for 359 kwh;
    12 months later 8317 cents for 514 kwh;
    So the extra 155 kwh cost (8317-4675) = 3442 cents, equal to 22.2 cents/kwh.

    Idling in a Prius ? ;)
    Short trips starting out with a cold ICE OTOH would not be a Prius forte, which you presumably run EV only.


     
  11. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    I doubt you can wait till 9 pm to turn on the AC. It's been cool for the pass month in central CA.
    I bet your bill will go up when it get hot.

     
  12. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    For an apples-to-apples comparison between E-1 and E-6 and E-9 rate plans on PG&E, air conditioning avoidance and other similar behaviors have to be taken into account. In my case, I have to admit that when I went from E-1 to E-6, adding solar PV and my PIP in the process, I have been more hesitant to use the air conditioning, so my numbers probably look better than a fair comparison would demonstrate. Pool pumps, clothes dryer, dishwasher, PIP charging, etc can be moved to off-peak times somewhat painlessly, but air conditioning...
     
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  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I think this is an interesting question without an answer: Is behavior modification an opportunity cost ? YMMV

    E.g., after a while turning off lights not in use does not take any extra effort; at that point I consider it 'free,' and if the behavior only developed because of PiP ownership, then I don't think it is so much of a stretch to lump the consumption changes together. As another example, many Prius drivers find they are less aggressive on the roads than they had been in their previous cars. So while C&D might drive the Prius the way they drive a Mustang, Prius owners do not.

    Unintended consequences, in a good way :)
     
  14. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Like when the California legislature is in session. :whistle:
     
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  15. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    For my second month on E9A, I used 564.5 kWh for $79.59. Back calculating at E1 rates, it would be $95.71 for a total savings of $16.12. There were two days where AC was used for almost the entirety of peak hours. 18.8 kWh were charged at $0.52/kWh. There were no mistaken peak time PiP charges. July is going to be brutal based on current temperatures as I type this.

    The few times, I forgot to plug in, I idled at a red light due to warm up. It was the oddest thing feeling the engine vibrate.
    We'll see how it turns out next month with AC use. For June anyway, AC use has been minimal.
     
  16. pip4mike

    pip4mike Junior Member

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    I live in Santa Cruz, in Northern California with PG&E power and have experienced something very interesting over the year since I bought the PiP and soon thereafter had a Smart Meter installed. Prior to the Pip we were averaging about 750 kWh/month and after about 400 kWh/month. Part of this is psychology - first, I convinced myself and my wife that we needed to conserve some to make up for the PiP charging load and second the arrival of the Smart Meter made me much more aware of power usage. Because of those two factors I also started a conversion to some CFL and mostly LED lamps plus automatic occupancy detector light switches. Then the Smart Meter and the PG&E web site allowed me to track usage and find lots of dumb power usage, which we eliminated. I continue to use the standard E1 tiered rate however since I could not see any big advantage to the alternatives.

    A month ago I signed up for the PG&E "Smart Rate" which makes the majority of my E1 usage approximately 1 cent less per kWh except for 15 days per year where power is about 60 cents higher per kWh on the announced days between 2 and 7 PM. Today happens to be one of those days. In all over the last year I've saved an average of $100 per month on electricity costs. I can still charge the car whenever I want, carefully avoiding those 15 days between 2 and 7 PM.

    Combine the electricity cost savings with an approximate $100 per month in gas savings driving the PiP over the previous Lexus RX and I am very happy. When at home we use very little gas just driving around Santa Cruz. My wife and I also take the Prius on frequent trips to Ventura, Tahoe, Arizona and Utah, finding it comfortable and easy on the wallet. I still have the Lexus and yes its slightly more comfortable, but its rare to use it now. We are taking a trip to the Trinity Alps next month and have about 20 miles of unpaved road plus 2 streams to ford so we will use the Lexus, but its extremely rare to need it at all.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^ Do you find that you are taking more trips, due to having more money from the above mentioned savings ?
     
  18. pip4mike

    pip4mike Junior Member

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    Yes, a few, but not many. Mostly we use a little rationalizing and take the gas money saved and use it for a nice dinner.
     
  19. pip4mike

    pip4mike Junior Member

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    Here is my first attempt at inserting a graphic from the PG&E web site. It shows my usage over the last year. The blue line is me and I purchased the PiP on June 26th. Our typical usage went from about 24 kWh/day to approximately 12 plus a higher number on weekends when we do laundry and the like. I work at home so I am here using electricity all day.

    • Sorry the graphic did not come through correctly so I tried to edit it out. - Mike​
     
  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Screw PG&E; use google docs :) ;)

    PiPMike.png
     
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