1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

I think we're going solar

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by jerrymildred, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I think the roof came out nicely. And it passed the rain test the other day. Another rain test tomorrow. Forecasting 99% chance.

    You can see the flat oof areas in these pictures that I want to replace while we're at it.
    IMG_3012.jpg
    Nothing like an early start. And they used just about all the daylight.


    IMG_3018.jpg
    Working on the garage roof.


    IMG_3023.jpg
    The flat roof over the lanai and dining room covers quite a few square feet.


    IMG_3026.jpg
    Shingling the garage ridge vent. Porch roof at right is the other part needing to be redone.


    IMG_3027.jpg
    Almost done. Almost sunset. Ready for the solar project to commence if the county will do their part.
     
    John321 and Prodigyplace like this.
  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Hmmm. The uninsulated flat roof talk made me realize that I'd never compared the temperature of that ceiling to the other ceilings.

    Outside temperature this morning is 52F. Inside it's 71F. The dining room ceiling under the flat roof is 64 and the other places I checked are 69 degrees. I hope we have another chilly spell after they get done this week so I can compare. Today's high is only 68, so I won't get to compare in hot weather. I wish I had. I'm such a data junkie, I can't believe I haven't done that.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,958
    8,836
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The roof is looking good. Did you have to remove the existing old singles in order to install a new layer of shingles? Where I have lived, the code allows two layers of singles. I have done re-single jobs twice, once in our previous house and once in our current house. Both times after talking to several roofers and getting quotes, I decided to go over the existing shingles. The roof underlayment and decking for both cases were intact and needed no repair. This saved the cost and time of installation mostly labor for the removal of old shingles and the total cost was way less than half of what would have cost if I went with a roofer suggesting removal of old singles.

    I don't remember what the cost was on our previous house being more than 20 years ago, but the recent roof job on our current house was only $2200 total. It was a two-men job and they finished in less than two days. Of course, our roof is a relatively small ~750sf very simple gable roof with no dormer or complicated structures and a not too steep 4/12 pitch. So, the installation was breath.
     
  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Last time it was done was shingle over shingle. As a result, they had to replace a few boards (not a plywood roof) that were probably damaged from the leaks that necessitated the 2007 roofing job and weren't addressed then since I've had no leaks.

    They made short work of stripping off 1,954 square feet of double layered shingles. They completely filled their trailer. And the four men did the whole roof in one day.

    Cost was a little over $8,000 but I'll get back about $2,000 on taxes since it's part of the solar project. Our next door neighbors have a little larger roof. They had their shingles removed (probably had also been double layered in the past) and their crew started on a Friday, left them under a tarp all weekend, and finished on Monday. And charged about $10,000.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,958
    8,836
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah, contractor job costs are always a mystery to me. I really hate any contractor job, but when I have to have someone do the job, I always get at least three quotes. In most cases, presumably the same job, depending on the contractor bidding on it offers vastly different quotes.

    One time I had a replacement window contractor gave us an estimate. After some measurements, we sat at a table and he gave us an initial offer of ~$20,000 for our 4Br 2.5baths colonial house. I think it had a total of close to 20 windows including a large bay window in the living room. The price was way higher than our budget, so we immediately turned it down. Within a second, he gave another offer for the same job for $15K. We still declined the offer. But without doing any negotiations, his offer came down to $8,000, at which point, we stopped. When he can offer the same job for 60% off, there must be something wrong with the way he is making an estimate. We became very suspicious of the contractor and stopped the conversation.
     
    #65 Salamander_King, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
    Prodigyplace and jerrymildred like this.
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I would have thrown him out too. I'd probably have asked him why I would give him the job when he tried to screw me out of $12,000.
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    BOOM, BOOM, BOOM! They're working on the flat roofs right now. I'll work from home today so I can see what's going on and practice my Spanish a little more. :D
     
    ETC(SS) likes this.
  8. R-P

    R-P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    804
    287
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Sorry for not reading the whole thread, so may have been answered...

    Can you just subtract your feeding into the grid from what you take out of it?
    We (Dutch) can, but it ends Jan 1st 2023. (I have a net useage of MINUS 1000-1500kWh for which I get paid about $0.10/kWh.).
     
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yes. But actually, it's calculated so that I will produce a little more than I use in a year, so the electric company should wind up paying me a little money every January. If we sized the system properly.

    However, after six weeks we are still waiting for the county to issue the building permit. (My tax dollars not at work. :mad:)
     
    R-P likes this.
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,036
    10,010
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This varies considerably by state. I have 'net metering' that works as you describe, except that I don't get paid for surplus, but only get to bank it for a year. Any not used by then goes free to the local utility (owned by local government in my community), so there is incentive to not build large enough for make a surplus.

    Apparently Jerry's state will pay him for surplus. Some other states still charge incoming energy at retail rates, but pay either surplus or even outgoing energy at lower wholesale rates.

    There are probably other methods too ...
     
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The state doesn't do anything except regulate. Duke Energy pays for the surplus at the end of the year. But only three cents per kWh as the sales rep explained it to me.

    Interesting. I was wondering the other day how things would pan out if so many people went solar with net metering that the power company was disrupted by having way more demand at night than in the daytime. Especially after the sun goes down but people haven't gone to bed yet.
     
  13. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
  14. John321

    John321 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    1,104
    1,144
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    A suggestion on how electric companies may handle solar customers in our state come from how the gas company charges customers.

    I am hooked up to Natural gas. We use natural gas from November to March in our area.
    Our only gas appliance is our furnace + a gas fireplace which is never used.
    We are charged $22.70 per month in the summer for a gas hookup/transmission fee even though our monthly gas usage =0
    This cost is called gas hookup/transmission fee + taxes.

    I wonder if eventually electric companies won't begin charging a Electric Utility Hookup/transmission fee each month even if no electricity is used?

    I don't agree with these fees but unfortunately the gas company could care less what I agree with.
     
    #74 John321, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,217
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Many electric companies already have such fees.
     
    fuzzy1 and jerrymildred like this.
  16. srellim234

    srellim234 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    1,192
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Laughlin, Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Here in Nevada that's the way it works. We get charged monthly for just being hooked up to the grid. The bill has varied from $3 to $13 a month depending on how the politicians feel like helping residents get through the Covid financial problems from month to month. It's supposed to settle between $16 and $19 a month once everybody gets vaccinated and back to work. We also only get to "bank" the excess energy produced for a year and then it becomes the property of Nevada Energy. No money changes hands.
     
  17. R-P

    R-P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    804
    287
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Dutch government wants everybody to disconnect from the natural gas hookup (in the 50's the biggest natural gas field yet was found in the Netherlands, so every government since has been throwing around money like water, in large contrast with e.g. Norway, where the oil benefits are put into a separate fund for future generations). Now we have small earthquakes in the area of the gasfield which costs only a fraction of what was gained to earthquake-proof the houses and fix the ones already damaged, but the government is painfully slow in doing this...

    Next to us is Germany, where they want everyone to get a natural gasconnection because it is way better/cleaner than the oil used for heating or the electricity from 'lignite'. (They closed all their nuclear powerplants after Fukushima)

    Makes sense, right?

    But if you want to stop using gas, they charge you for dismantling the connection.

    Some Dutch numbers:
    kWh price: about $0.27/kWh
    Surplus price: depending on the company between 8 and 15ct/kWh
    Banking your surplus for the next year: not possible. Banking your surplus within the year, only for 2021 and 2022. After this we will likely just receive 10ct/kWh put back into the grid and pay 27ct/kWh. So it will be a sport to do the launrdy and charge our (future) electric car while the sun is shining. :mad:
    Gas is about 1$ per m^3. (is roughly 1$ per 10cuft)

    Fixed cost for gas and electricity: 5$/month (gas) + 5$/month (elec) + 500$ minus 400$ government grant = 340$

    Standard connection: single phase 35 or 40A fused 230V~(9Kw) or three phase 3x25A 230V~ (17kW). Bigger connections (3x35A, 3x63, 3x80A etc) are much, much more expensive (3x35A is already 800-1000$ a year in fixed cost).

    Belgium is somewhat strange: you PAY the electricity company a kind of penalty for the size of your solar inverter. So 10kWp of solarpanels with a 3kW inverter costs the same as 2500Wp solarpanels with a 3kW inverter where you will obviously put a lot more energy back with the first setup.
     
    bisco likes this.
  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    We pay $11-12/month for the honor of being connected to the electric grid. You probably pay too.

    Back to the solar project.
    I just talked to my contact with the firm and he finally found out what was going on. It wasn't the county holding things up; it was the project manager who wasn't getting the right documents to them. They discovered that fact when he left the company and his replacement started digging into it. They are really embarrassed, as you might guess. My contact seemed confident that, barring further misadventures, they will have the permit by the end of next week since all the permit office wanted was that one document. They are trying to line things up so they can start immediately when they get the permit. Once that's done, I'll get to see how long it takes the electric company to check it out and let us turn it on.
     
  19. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm already SOLAR - but in a small way - 1500watt unit from 10 years ago. But I'm on a Govt guaranteed buy-back till 2028 as long as I don't upgrade systems.

    There's been a lot of angst about the proposal - 2 million household system owners - and a lot of Commercial owners are up in arms. And out of our small population, Govt won't ignore that number of complainants. Hopefully.

    Oh, yes, and the installation industry - will fall on its face - more complainants.
     
    jerrymildred and Prodigyplace like this.
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I should have kept the bill but when our water system switched from a private system to the county one I got a bill once dated April 1 with a charge for zero usage. It struck me as a bad joke but I had to pay it anyway.