I would be proud if the Prius was an American development

god-fearing, bible thumping ID... um people....causing all this.

i still say that organized religion IS the root of most evil.

they are the excuse for 99% of all the wars in the history of man. 90% of terrorist threats, bombings, and persecution.

either way...flame on

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kazu88\";p=\"101688)</div>

How dare you contaminate this thread with facts and science. Can't you see the Bush lovers have their minds made up? And when you throw facts at them, they must then rush back to Faux News to get a new fix of propaganda.

In fact, I suspect some of them go back to an RNC web site. like the CATO institute or the Heritage Foundation looking for talking points.

The Republicans remind be of the Billy Crystal routine on SNL, "It's better to look marvelous than to be marvelous". And the Republican facade of progress and success is collapsing. Have you seen all the talking heads on the talk shows talking about how Osama Bin Ladan is hiding in Iran? Do you think we are being softened up for an attack on Iran? And if we do attack Iran, make no mistake about it, it will be strategically timed to coincide with the 2006 elections.

So what does this have to do with stem cells? These guys are masters of diversion. And while they divert our attention from what they are really after, they succeed in repealing the entire 20th century.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"101763)</div>

I think when you present facts and criticize "W," they usually turn around and attack your character.

Yes, I think Bin Laden is hiding in Iran... or North Korea, or Syria. :roll:

 

Re: I would be proud if the Prius was an American developmen

Help Danny., trying to find your reply to "proud if the Prius was an American development"., and again foiled., can't get it...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"101763)</div>

How dare you contaminate this thread with facts and science. Can't you see the Bush lovers have their minds made up? And when you throw facts at them, they must then rush back to Faux News to get a new fix of propaganda.

In fact, I suspect some of them go back to an RNC web site. like the CATO institute or the Heritage Foundation looking for talking points.

The Republicans remind be of the Billy Crystal routine on SNL, "It's better to look marvelous than to be marvelous". And the Republican facade of progress and success is collapsing. Have you seen all the talking heads on the talk shows talking about how Osama Bin Ladan is hiding in Iran? Do you think we are being softened up for an attack on Iran? And if we do attack Iran, make no mistake about it, it will be strategically timed to coincide with the 2006 elections.

So what does this have to do with stem cells? These guys are masters of diversion. And while they divert our attention from what they are really after, they succeed in repealing the entire 20th century.
[/b][/quote]

PS Kazu...I own a Prius and am a CONSERVATIVE., not like all Bush says, but still find it better then the alternatives., don't politisize and fit people so quick., that is the whole problem on both sides. We all have our issues and opinions, that is what freedoom is about and what I fought for in Nam. I got this car because of admiration of technology, free market when working and not interfered with works just fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"101763)</div>

How dare you contaminate this thread with facts and science. Can't you see the Bush lovers have their minds made up? And when you throw facts at them, they must then rush back to Faux News to get a new fix of propaganda.

In fact, I suspect some of them go back to an RNC web site. like the CATO institute or the Heritage Foundation looking for talking points.

The Republicans remind be of the Billy Crystal routine on SNL, "It's better to look marvelous than to be marvelous". And the Republican facade of progress and success is collapsing. Have you seen all the talking heads on the talk shows talking about how Osama Bin Ladan is hiding in Iran? Do you think we are being softened up for an attack on Iran? And if we do attack Iran, make no mistake about it, it will be strategically timed to coincide with the 2006 elections.

So what does this have to do with stem cells? These guys are masters of diversion. And while they divert our attention from what they are really after, they succeed in repealing the entire 20th century.
[/b][/quote]

PS Kazu...I own a Prius and am a CONSERVATIVE., not like all Bush says, but still find it better then the alternatives., don't politisize and fit people so quick., that is the whole problem on both sides. We all have our issues and opinions, that is what freedoom is about and what I fought for in Nam. I got this car because of admiration of technology, free market when working and not interfered with works just fine.

 

Let's not forget that we ALL were embryos once. What makes one embryo more valuable than another? Who are we to say?

Let me get real with you all. I have acute scholiosis and had it from birth, along with all the complications that goes with it. For those that don't know what that is, scholiosis is the curvature of the spine. Mine is a severe case. Through God's blessing, He has given me a mind that surpasses my physical abilities. But if you don't think the embryo that became me is any valuable than any other,

Then I ask Danny to delete every single conribution I have ever made to this site. Let's consider me destroyed for the sake of the good of the community.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"102137)</div>

I am just presenting facts here.

When a couple goes to infertility clinics, multiple eggs are harvested and inseminated in vitro (outside human bodies, over a petri dish). Dozens embryos are created. Several embryos are then implanted in a mother's womb at each attempt; most of them die off, but some of them do survive and becomes a so-called "test tube" baby, or babies.

In this process, several hundreds of thousands of embryos currently remain frozen in the US as result. (Most parents are usually happy after having 2-3 children, and no plans to have more kids) Some of these embryos are being discarded as medical waste to make room (as this practice is approved by the government and the would-be "parents").

To this day, I have never heard of a woman willing to adopt these embryos and bring them to full-term babies.

This is an emotionally-charged, bioethically difficult topic. Nonetheless, it just boggles my mind that the president is intentionally interfering with this medical research that will bring relief and improved quality of life to humanity.

...and why???

Who are we doing favors? To the frozen embryos? To "God"? To whom?

I am a medical doctor & witness human suffering everyday, first-hand. I just want to know why my patients do not get "Up-or-down" votes from the US government & congress on this matter.

I just want to meet the president ask, the big "WHY?"

Please don't think I'm personally attacking you or anyone else here. I'm just thinking aloud. I just don't understand it...

 

Re: I would be proud if the Prius was an American developmen

P.S.

Danman, I really appreciate your contribution to this forum. I have learned a lot from you and others posting here.

"Stem-cell research, right or wrong?" is not a pleasant topic to talk about. Nonetheless, it is a very important topic for me, and it's hard for me to keep quiet. All I want to do is to help and care for my patients better, and the stem cell reseach does have enormous potential to do that...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kazu88\";p=\"102240)</div>

It is an emotional issue, but Doctor, I am not one but am technologically oriented, and can tell you that adult cells have provided more bonanza then embryonic, also California just passed an open ended tax funded ressearch program leaving it all to the very ones who want to extract knowledge without regards to human lives. No ressearch to date has provided any advances in medical science from embryos, and stem cells from embryos. The U.S. government did not outlaw stem cell ressearch it merely limited harvesting to current lines already harvested. Scientists want a totally free reign, and full government funds to boot. Why should Tax Payers be forced to fund this, and on top of it forced to provide cells from aborted fetus and the likes ? So you see there is 2 sides, no law restricts PRIVATE ressearch, no law restricts PRIVATE harvesting, the law merely prevents U.S. Govt funds from being used to develop and implement this ressearch other then using existing lines, until more can be ascertained..I can't see what is wrong with that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IALTMANN\";p=\"102349)</div>

Okay, that's just a lie.

There's a lot of misinformation out there. Be aware.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kazu88\";p=\"102376)</div>

Okay, that's just a lie.

There's a lot of misinformation out there. Be aware.
[/b][/quote]

Let's just say we see things differently, it is not a lie, just a result that can occur...check the new California law and see if aborted fetuses are expempted from such ressearch, and also then how long it will be before a woman who could consider adoption is advised of the good things ressearch could do even if she choose abortion....these things can occur, and need to be carefully considered. That is exactly what this California law (actually a propostion) allows, a new path that "can benefit science and society". Sometimes morality is a harder path then the scientific one, sure you could say aborted fetuses are an ideal source, since disposal would most likely occur anyway, but why not do good here ??? That is what can be the result, would that not be one more "encouragement" to consider aborting rather then birth???

 

Actually there are a few organizations that facilitate embryo adoption: http://www.embryoadoption.org
http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakes_description.asp
http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/donor.html#embryo

'Adult' stem cells can also be obtained from the placenta, from what I understand, which would make them very young, if age is a factor.

I would agree, intuitively, you would think that embryonic stem cells would be more versatile, but corporate/private funding favors adult stem cell research because it is working, and embryonic stem cells seem to resist doing what they would be expected to do.
It's almost like there's a security guard designed into them to prevent tampering, until they have become what they were designed to become, after which the security lock is relaxed. It may be there simply to give the embryo a chance to survive without tampering from even natural outside forces, such as radiation, viruses, etc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"102449)</div>

Most people who go the IVF route do not give up their embryos for adoption, and who's to say if that's good or bad. The embroys do NOT belong to anyone but the couple who created them, and it's their decision as to what happens to them.

So I say, to all the right wing nuts: keep your hands off my genetic material. What you do with yours your business, and what I do with mine is my business.

 

Ah, but it is NOT YOUR genetic material, once you mix it with someone else's, any more than your boy or girl is.
When during the child development does it NOT become your property?

Are you also saying that my parents should have had the right to destroy me at will, because I might have cost too much or inconvenienced too much because of my medical issues? There was a good chance I would not have been as mobile and self sufficient as I am you know. More goes for the lady I care deeply about. Should she have been destroyed too?

We've done away with slavery over a century ago.

Speaking of genetic material ownership, did you know some pharmacuticals want to patent genetic code that may have high immunization or other benefical properties, even if they obtained that material solely from YOU?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"102772)</div>

Dan:

I thought they already did this? Thus raising many thorny legal issues.

I imagine soon we'll be branded with UV readable barcodes on our foreheads, or biometric chips like my cat, to make it more "convenient" to sample us and get valuable genetic material.

Jay

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"102772)</div>

Well, if my wife and I (or any couple, which was what I said in the first place) were to decide we wanted to donate our unused genetic material, I'd say piss off to anyone who tries to tell us to do otherwise.

And Dan, stop trying to reshape the argument around yourself. Nobody is saying your parents would have had the right to destroy your embryo. But on the other hand, if a couple uses IVF, and they have unused genetic material (and it's not an embryo, sorry, it's a very small cluster of cells) nobody's going to tell them that they have to give up the leftovers for adoption. Nobody.

 

Re: I would be proud if the Prius was an American developmen

batteries are american tech, Toy will be paying a royalty to cobasys on all hybrids built in the US 8)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dixonr\";p=\"102832)</div>

An American tech, but a Japanese company that made it possible for the "American tech" to work the way it should. Where are GM, Ford, and Chrysler's contributions to this American Tech?

 

Re: I would be proud if the Prius was an American developmen

Wow, what a fun little tangent...
Stem cell research is little more than a sidefight on the abortion issues. Which, in all my years, has accomplished nothing. It's a giant red herring of an issue, meant to divide the electorate in half and prevent a middle ground. As is the gay rights fight. How many billions have been spent through special interest groups on these debates through lobbying, advertising, and etc. to accomplish absolutely nothing?
In reaility, these issues affect a very small minority of people, and should hence take up a very small amount of our politcal effort/concern.
I hate both political parties for lingering on issues like this, which America is pretty evenly divided upon, and which affect such a small number of people. There are lots of life styles, decisions, and etc. that are going to be looked down upon by the other half or even the majority, but you can't legislate stupidity or morality. Unless you are the Taliban.