ICE in EV Mode

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by PiPLosAngeles, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    No. I want to achieve maximum theoretical efficiency no matter what I'm driving. Some people run marathons, other people climb mountain peaks, but I push systems to the limits of efficiency. It boggles my mind that so many products are designed by such sloppy engineering that poor assumptions are built in to the system, or even worse, intentionally crippled.

    Luckily, in this case, there's a workaround, so it's not nearly as aggravating as limitations that cannot be bypassed without major hacking.
     
  2. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    i think the ultimate issue here is that (a) you are more hung up on the concept of "freedom" than having any actual issue with the way the car performs and (b) you are presuming that you can outsmart the people who actually designed this car.
    at this point, this thread has effectively run its course, because i don't think there are many people on the forum who will agree with either of those points, much less both of them.
     
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  3. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    There is a huge difference between a cheap consumer electronic device that has a built in life span that is around 2 or 3 years and a moderately expensive car that is designed to last for at least 10 to 15 years if not longer. If you modify the programming of a router, and it doesn't work, the worst thing you've done is bricked a $50 electronic item that can easily be replaced. If you screw up the programming of the hybrid system, you've potentially bricked a $30K car, or compromised it's overall safety. If you do that, you can bet your sweet nice person the manufacturer is not gonna honor the warranty because you deliberately screwed around and modified things. This is not the same as changing out a carburetor to get a bit more power, or changing the points to modify the timing, or putting in a different air filter to get a bit more air flow and power, or going to better brake pads, etc. All of those things can be put back to stock if a problem arises.
     
  4. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    what's worse is that if a problem in your super-duper-awesome custom ROM causes you to have an accident and kill someone. forget warranty, you just killed someone.
    what happens if your router breaks? you won't have internet for a few hours? lol.
     
  5. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I guess if wanting to be in control of what the machines I own and operate are doing is considered "hung up on freedom," I'm guilty as charged.

    It's not "outsmarting" an engineer, it's knowing my current situation. They can never know that. It's not possible to design a system that will operate at peak efficiency under all circumstances. It just isn't possible. That's why users should be able to adjust according to their particulars. Plus, engineers are people too. They're not gods to be worshipped, and their choices aren't Holy commandments to be obeyed without question.
     
  6. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Do you even know what's controlled by the onboard software systems and what isn't? If you don't, you can't really make a valid claim that it's dangerous. It may or may not be, but that is neither here nor there. Using your logic we should prevent people from working on their cars because they might mess something up and kill somebody. I don't think so.
     
  7. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    In which case you won't go as fast as you want to or need to. Or you'll melt the battery and electric motor. And void your warranty. Or you'll deplete your EV miles a lot more quickly and end up using the ICE just as much as before if not more.

    Believe me, I understand the urge to want more control and be able to push the performance boundaries. I just don't think the marginal improvements you might get are enough to overcome the major downsides. There are plenty of MPG improvements to be made by modifying your use of the car rather than modifying the car to suit what you perceive as your needs.
     
  8. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Believe me, I'm pretty sure I know how fast I want to accelerate better than you or a Toyota engineer does. Why would I melt the battery? Did they really design the system so that the traction motor was allowed to exceed the batteries specifications? That would be a bad choice. What if the fuel pump broke?

    But even more can be made by doing both.
     
  9. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    *Everything* in is this car is controlled by the onboard software. They're pretty much all tied together. Look at the stability control system. It has the ability to modify your steering control, throttle control and brakes. Or the radar cruise control which talks to and controls the brakes and throttle. Traction control also talks to and controls the brakes and throttle. The Pre-collision system takes it even further than the stability control system since it is now controlling the air bags, seat belts and windows. The level of sophistication and complexity in these systems is mind boggling. And the level of liability on the part of the manufacturers is huge if they get something wrong. Which is why they test and test and test things to make it as reliable and stable as possible. There are design factors that we're not aware of that may make some of things we want impossible to achieve.
     
  10. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    No, they designed the system so that if you need more than about 40 kW of power from the traction motor, the ICE comes on to supply the necessary extra power. But you seem to be arguing for the ability to keep the ICE off to maximize MPG. In which case you need to either be content with less acceleration than the situation may demand, or demanding more power from the traction motor and battery pack and possibly damaging them.

    If the fuel pump broke, you'd probably get the Triangle of Doom, the dashboard would lite up, you'd lose power and eventually end up on the shoulder needing a tow to the mechanic.
     
  11. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    You mean it's like the color printer that won't print from the black cartridge if the color cartridge is empty? That drives me nuts.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when i ran out of gas in my 08, i was able to drive almost a mile on a nearly full battery. i don't recall reading where anyone has documented what happens if the pip runs out of gas with a partly charged battery. hopefully, you can keep driving.
     
  13. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I may just test that. Good to learn under controlled circumstances instead of finding out the hard way where it might be dangerous.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  15. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    its been done.. I remember reading about it here somewhere

    EDIT: Here it is : Running out of Gas | PriusChat
     
  16. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Interesting. Leave it to GM to have a fuel pump with no thermal cutoff. Even $10 aquarium/pond pumps have that.
     
  17. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Good way to destroy your HV battery if you have no EV range left
     
  18. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I doubt Toyota engineers are that stupid. Low voltage cutoff is a part of even cheap Chinese toys that cost less than $10.
     
  19. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    At least in the Gen II's, it won't let you continue to run on battery past a certain point. I ran out of gas at least 4 times. I was able to go about a mile or so on battery. As the battery ran down, I went slower and slower until it got to the point where the car was basically telling me "pull over and get some gas, we're not going any further on just battery". It was smart enough to leave enough charge in the battery to be able to start the engine again, etc. I still had 1 battery bar left at that point.
     
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  20. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    Sadly, this is true. And if the traction battery dies, yer stuck as well. Both fuel sources need to be present and working for the car to work. The two systems are permanently connected to eachother.
     
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