If God Asked You For a Dime, How Would You Know It Was Him?

Purposefully equivocate THIS (guess which finger I'm holding up).

 

Now we know what the heart of the matter is. Don't worry you are in good company. The majority of so called "Christians" do not tithe and a majority that do, do not tithe (10%) a full 10%.

 

That's pathetic. Is that how you end all of your discussions? You run out of intellectual ideas so you give the other person the finger?

 

Perhaps if you looked at it as a blessing instead of something else Bra... :rockon:


Some folks have different ways of expressing themselves, and when you take what is given in one way, you may miss the original intent of the message...

As for the creator begging for anything in life... I do not believe the creator ever has been on earth, nor do I believe everything that folks have written down in the name of god... especially since most of what is written is to keep certain men in power.

My belief is:
If the creator wanted you to know something, you'd have been born knowing it.

If the creator wanted to know if you were charitable at heart, your intent in your heart would be known to the creator in the moment the question came about.

Personally... I do not think the creator gives a crap about that... but that is my opinion, and it is not the same official opinion as the Church that gave me the ordination papers I have beside my desk.

 

Aye. If I say "Water is wet", and they say "If water spills on the floor, it will be wet, yes, but then that water will eventually evaporate, and then guess what - you have a dry floor! It's DRY! Why do you always insist water is dry?" then I know I won and it's time to take on the next challenge.

 

Yes, I have read that book. Parts of it out loud in front of a congregation, even. I understood the words just fine, but I did not assume they were ever uttered by a deity of any sort. Books and languages are of men, not gods.

 

Circular? The only reference I use is the Bible in regards to faith and doctrine, albeit different interpretations. but For non-faith based issues I use history books in conjunction with the Bible for those items it covers within its time line. Different sources cross referenced against each other isn't that how history is taught in all our schools? Are their conclusions and theories therefore suspect or incorrect?

 

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Most of the posters here are pretty decent guys/gals but for some reason can't seem to conclude a point or post concerning God, faith, religion without some kind of insult. Just reference the gist of posts here between believers and non-believers. Sadly there's just no tolerance for different POV's in regards to faith, God and religion.

 

Intolerance??? On a forum??!!

I'm shocked.

OK....note for the humor impaired: That was sarcasm.

I don't really find posts or comments deriding GOD or religion to be "intolerance". Sorry. For me the bar is a little higher than that.
If somebody wants to make snarky comments about GOD or religion, it reaffirms my belief that the whole freedom of speech thing is a GOD given, Constitutionally protected right worthy of defending.
It's hardly a Christians and lions situation, and my beliefs are strong enough to withstand sophomoric comments in a car forum.

You wanna see intolerance????
Question AGW.

Oops… I did it again.
More sarcasm.
Crap.

 

I submit that is true. It (the something) is the need to know and love Him (the creator). We spend our lives trying to fill the "God sized hole" in our life with things like a career, lots of money, toys, trips, family, etc and we still feel so empty because those will never fill in the hole permanently. The meaning of life becomes obvious when that hole is successfully filled and a peace that can not be found anywhere else. :rockon:

 

I've been on various online forums for over 30 years. I have seen countless religious discussions on countless sites in that time.

This is how every single one goes:


Moral: Don't bother trying to get the other guy to See The Light; that's never going to happen. Ever. So just have fun with it.

 

Which 10 are those? I ask because their are literally hundreds of rules in the Old Testament. I curious why you would only keep 10 of them and how you decided which 10 to keep. For example the bible specifically tells you to kill anyone who teaches about a different god.

Deuteronomy Chapter 13

6"If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, 7of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), 8you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. 9"But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

I assume you are referring to the "10 Commandments" but again, which 10? I ask because the "10 commandments" are given 3 times in the Old Testament: Exodus Chapter 20, Exodus Chapter 34 and Deuteronomy Chapter 5. They are not all the same. In fact the one that the bible specifically says were written on stone tablets and given to Moses are VERY different than the ones you see posted in churches today.

Exodus Chapter 34:

1Now the LORD said to Moses, "Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered. 2"So be ready by morning, and come up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and present yourself there to Me on the top of the mountain. 3"No man is to come up with you, nor let any man be seen anywhere on the mountain; even the flocks and the herds may not graze in front of that mountain." 4So he cut out two stone tablets like the former ones, and Moses rose up early in the morning and went up to Mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and he took two stone tablets in his hand. 5The LORD descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the LORD. 6Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave [the guilty] unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations." 8Moses made haste to bow low toward the earth and worship. 9He said, "If now I have found favor in Your sight, O Lord, I pray, let the Lord go along in our midst, even though the people are so obstinate, and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us as Your own possession." 10Then God said, "Behold, I am going to make a covenant. Before all your people I will perform miracles which have not been produced in all the earth nor among any of the nations; and all the people among whom you live will see the working of the LORD, for it is a fearful thing that I am going to perform with you. 11"Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day: behold, I am going to drive out the Amorite before you, and the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. 12"Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst. 13"But [rather], you are to tear down their altars and smash their [sacred] pillars and cut down their Asherim 14-- for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God-- 15otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice, 16and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons [also] to play the harlot with their gods. 17"You shall make for yourself no molten gods. 18"You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt. 19"The first offspring from every womb belongs to Me, and all your male livestock, the first offspring from cattle and sheep. 20"You shall redeem with a lamb the first offspring from a donkey; and if you do not redeem [it], then you shall break its neck. You shall redeem all the firstborn of your sons. None shall appear before Me empty-handed. 21"You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest; [even] during plowing time and harvest you shall rest. 22"You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, [that is], the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23"Three times a year all your males are to appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel. 24"For I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders, and no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD your God. 25"You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread, nor is the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover to be left over until morning. 26"You shall bring the very first of the first fruits of your soil into the house of the LORD your God. "You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk." 27Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

 

Christians (Christ followers) are under the new Covenant (see New Testament). Jesus paid the price of all our sin when he went to the cross and we are no longer bound the the "Law" as laid out in the Old Testament. Jesus did however reiterate nine or the ten Commandments. All summed up in John 3:16.

 

Actually, he added a new one, making it eleven. Most Christians tend to ignore it though, or will argue with you that there are only ten total. Maybe they just don't like this one, since it would mean loving gay, colored, and muslim people.

"A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you" (John 13:34)

As for what I would do if someone claiming to be God walked up to me and asked for a dime, I would say the same thing I would to the priest asking for one dime out of every single dollar that I earn:

What does God need with a Starship?
(Captain Kirk, Star Trek V)

As to where I stand personally, it's somewhere between an embittered former believer and a sympathetic athiest.

 

I hear that a lot. Christians claim to be under a new covenant and no longer bound by the old law. Then they pick and choose individual laws and prohibitions from the Old Testament that mention behaviors they don't like. (The prohibition of tattoos for example.) Of course if someone wants to call themselves a Christian I would think they would follow Christ's example.

Jesus and the 12 disciples were Jewish and followed the Jewish laws. It was Saul/Paul that had the revelation that believers no longer had to follow the Jewish dietary laws and that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be Christians. Peter continued to require conversion and circumcision. In their respective books they warn their followers about the other's false teachings. And so you had the first split of the Christian church recorded for us in the Bible.

 

Good call, though Jesus didn't reiterate the Sabbath commandment (#4), so I guess still total 10.

Agreed, this command is very difficult to uphold. We are after all human in need of a forgiving and loving God.

 

So what is your point?

 

Aha, I've always wondered where your liberal tendencies were coming from!

First I'd just like to ask; where's the fun in having all the answers given you? Second, I think I know you well enough that this question is at least partly rhetorical. Because, my friend you would not be happy with having a nanny God giving you anything but abilities and He wouldn't be happy if He had to do so either. . After all he gave us free will as well as intelligence, curiosity etc. Etc.

 

Who said the creator will give us all the answers...

Anyways Bra... where I lean is toward there being a "process" that is the creator... not necessarily a being as we can define it, and also not necessarily one that gives a rat about what happens in the universe as we know it...

And that is because I have observed the universe I am a part of... it is rooted in chaos, and it is destructive from it's very beginnings, notwithstanding what man has or will do... additionally, it is without any real regard to what is "just" or "right" or whom is the "chosen peoples" and without any sympathy for the weak or charitable folks that have tornadoes, acts of war or terrorism or assault or larceny, or earthquakes, or meteors smacking em in the head.

My perspective:
The creator doesn't care... why should she... especially when there is probably more than one universe, and we may not be her favorite "Barbi's" to play with...

However...

I also believe in destiny... so does a number of religious works including the bible. I just don't believe destiny is all of it... free will is a function of life... but it isn't the reason for it.

As for why I believe in destiny for some of our life... well, frankly, because of my personal experiences in this life...and the dreams in my head that came true, before it happened, and exactly like the picture show I had in my head... no-one else had the dreams I had in my head, and no-one else had the voices of my forefather's protecting me in moments of decision that meant life or death. I have... I know it... I know it in my very being. Because it happened to ME.

And that is another reason I don't believe the creator will ever ask you for a dime Bra... money isn't an issue with the cosmos, and she already knows the answer if she wants to know anything about it anyways... I just don't think she cares about it enough to do anything to change what will happen anyway... and the reason she won't is something for man to ponder and argue about.

I am Bob of the Church of the Living Bob.

I also have papers saying I have Credentials of Ministry... (which can be purchased by most anyone just as mine were) sooooo, here we have... the Church of the Living Bob's proof that it is as legitimate as any other ministry that doesn't own a temple/church/building devoted to worship.

Nor do I plan to for the sake of any followers that may decide to become members of the order. Which is a non-denominational order that follows the teachings of Bob... and still is not seeking tax-exempt status...

I haven't finished my second book, nor begun my movie as of yet.

Thus the religions of Terra...