If It's Just a Software Fix, Why the Delay?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by bighouse, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    I think the Toyota Dealer's are still navigating through the ten or fifteen Microsoft Phone menu's so they can eventually be connected to the Broken English guy :typing: in Bangladesh that was tasked with everyone's Update Fix. As anyone with a modern high speed connection attached their PC can attest, this could be done in another week, maybe two, then you can bring it in and have the new software 'bugs' installed, just like your PC :nerd:!

    aaah that is, if their Credit Card clears first :eek: !

    I think this part of that 'Advanced Technology' we all hear so much about. Feeling Lucky R U ?
     
  2. New_Yorker

    New_Yorker New Member

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    You Listen To FOX NEWS ? ? ?

    GREAT !

    I have this Bridge For Sale, it's in Brooklyn, Such a Deal !

    Call ME, Right Away !
     
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  3. lonestar

    lonestar New Member

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    I am sure the delay has to do with the decision making process and the current situational politics for its reputation.

    Does anyone have any information about how the latest 2010 models in production with the fix are different than the previously sold models?? If there are multiple fixes in the current production that relate to the hardware, what are those hardware differences? I seriously doubt that there are hardware changes going into a high selling model that has been in production for awhile.
     
  4. tonyrenier

    tonyrenier I grew up, but it's still red!

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    Well,
    It would explain some of the paranoia.
    Tony Renier
     
  5. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    This software/hardware, brake/accelerator, recall/not recall, real issue or propaganda, does not bode well for space travel........
     
  6. natick4

    natick4 New Member

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    Actually, I agree with you - despite other negative comments.

    BUT, wondering whether MS Office installs correctly onto my PC doesn't have the same safety implications as to whether my brake software installs correctly.

    Certainly, at some point in the future, all cars will be connected to the web so that software updates can occur during off-road times. An industry rep on NPR mentioned that within a short time frame, 40-60% of the cost of a family car with be component related.

    I am not sure we're there yet for brakes, but navigation and audio-package updates should be doable right now via using the XM satellite link as a carrier. They could stream software during expected driving down times, globally, based on local times (1-4 am).

     
  7. Carolina Dave

    Carolina Dave New Member

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    This is a total debacle.We should be able to plug our cars into a laptop or have an Iphone app so we can download software updates in real time. It's crazy that Toyota has built software into their cars that requires customers to take the car into the shop to get patches or updates. Welcome to 2010 Toyota, get with the program. The internet has been around for over 20 years...figure out a way to use it.
     
  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Please find me a mainstream, mass market car from any of the major manufacturers that lets the customer via an iPhone app or their laptop update firmware in safety critical systems.

    Does your laptop or iPhone come with an OBD II connector and interface? What would be the reason for putting it on there? If a car maker were to allow updates via say USB, that's yet something else they have to test and another point of vulnerability of them (increased attack surface for someone wanting to do something malicious). How many times would it be used? What would be the cost/benefit to the car maker?

    I've done help desk support work for 2 years and had to help support users for software I've worked on via Usenet newsgroups too. The average computer user, let alone average driver won't know what to do. What happens if the flashing process goes awry? Now they have to tow their car in? How much does that cost and who pays for that?

    Think about the regulatory (think NHTSA, NTSB and DOT and international equivalents) aspects of letting customers reflash something in their car on safety critical systems for safety/precautionary recalls.
     
  9. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

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    Oh I'm not saying that just ANYONE should be able to update the software on a car...just that it ought to be easy enough for DEALERS to access the updates online...along with all relevant instructions on how to install said update.

    So, I called my dealer. They'll call me back next week to schedule an appointment for my update- sounded like they expect to get the update and installation instructions this week.
     
  10. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    When you botch the update, who will be responsible for the safety of your car? You? Toyota? Your ISP?

    There is a big safety difference between updating your web browser and a piece of real-time control software. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will take a lot of security measures and specialized controls to guarantee safety.

    Tom
     
  11. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Great idea Dave. Why not make it Open Source software that anybody can modify? Next thing you know, we'll all be talking about the new "Non-Stop Virus".

    Frankly, I'm perfectly happy if Toyota distributes their software upgrades via a secure server using SFTP (Secure File Transfer Protocol) that only can be accessed by Toyota Dealers.

    Keith
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Delay?

    Just got mine done moments ago...

    .
     
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  13. AKCMommy

    AKCMommy New Member

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    For those of you who think that this is nothing to worry about, you really should stop smoking the Toyota pipe.

    I traded in my 2007 Prius for a 2010 Prius a few days prior to the brake issue hitting the news. Toyota KNEW about this problem before I purchased my car. They KNEW and didn't tell any of the dealers or owners.

    This is simply about image and money. They are not concerned about the safety of their product. If they were, as soon as they knew about the problem and had a fix, they would have implimented the fix in ALL 2010 cars...not just the ones coming off of the factory line.
     
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  14. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Yep, you are right - Toyota knew that their product was not 100% perfect when they sold it to you. The 2010 Prius had been driven hundreds of thousands of miles by other people before you bought a 2010 version. Yes it does have a minor braking problem that affects the vehicle far less than 1 % of the time for which they were probably preparing a service bulletin to be performed at the next regular service.

    If you expect perfection in every thing that humans make, then you would be better off by not buying anything.

    Keith
     
  15. freedean

    freedean Junior Member

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    I also traded in my 2007 Prius for a 2010 in January. Since Toyota was already aware of the issue, and in fact was putting a remedy in place on their production lines in the same time frame, I believe they should never have sold me the car without the update. When I first felt the brakes cutting out while going over a bad patch of road, I was extremely surprised a problem that was a minor annoyance in my 2007 had gotten worse, not better, in the 2010.
     
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  16. AKCMommy

    AKCMommy New Member

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    I am not expecting perfection. But when you knowingly sell someone a faulty product, you are in the wrong.

    They knew it. They instituted a fix in the cars on the line. They sold me a car without the fix AFTER they were aware there was a problem. That is dishonest.

    There is something wrong with the corporate climate that allows people to think that this is anything less than dishonest. And to allow these companies to continue to do this is wrong. No matter how small YOU seem to think it is. I find your signature line to be extremely ironic.
     
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  17. hsiaolc

    hsiaolc New Member

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    You should ignore poeple like that. They are ignorant and blind. Most likely he never expect anything because he has nothing to look forward to. If people were all like him we would still be in ice ages but it is good to know there are people like you around who sees beyond a bloody badge.

    When I buy a new car I don't expect break problems. And even if there are problems I don't expect a big cover up. I am not upset with the Prius brake software glitch. I am upset with how Toyota dealt with the whole issue. Still in their press they try to look good by saying this is not a safty issue. Just thinking about it piss me off once more. If it is not a safty issue then what it is?

    Lukcy that guy don't build cars otherwise if any problem he will just tell the press "hey do you expect perfection?"
     
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  18. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    hsiaolc,

    You clearly have an anger management problem, or are just very immature.

    Getting back to Toyota,,, They are a huge company with thousands of employees that operates on a global basis. It is unrealistic to expect that they can make global changes instantly. Considering the hundreds of thousands of miles driven by people in the 2010 model, the braking issue with the 2010 Prius is rather minor affecting braking < 1 % of the time. Does it need to be fixed, you bet. As stated before, a service bulletin with correction of the anomaly at the next scheduled maintenance would be appropriate.

    Keith
     
  19. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    The braking system in the Prius is a completely...completely different thing. And if you design bridges and do not understand this can you please tell us where these bridges are so we can all avoid them?

    In the case of bridge design software, the certified professional engineer uses the computer and its software as a tool and verifies that the produced results are correct, then the bridge building starts. If the computer crashes while printing out the blue prints, for example, you can just throw away the botched printout and start it again.

    Tell me again how this is similar to the real-time control operation being performed in the Prius.


    3PriusMike
     
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  20. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Hi AKCMommy.

    I've worked for large companies before. I know from first hand experience that it is easier to correct an issue on a factory assembly line than it is to make the change on a global basis for products in the field. That is no excuse for not correcting defective products in the field, but it does take more time to correct defects in the field. I don't believe that Toyota is being dishonest in this particular case as I believe that Toyota was in the process of rolling out this software fix for cars that are already in the hands of the public. I think that it is just a matter of bad timing for Toyota.

    Keith
     
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