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illegal immigration

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by hycamguy07, Feb 18, 2007.

  1. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Feb 20 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]393223[/snapback]</div>
    I laugh at these reparation people - people being wronged - Jeez - who hasn't been wronged? I guess Adam and Eve should be the first in line to pay up :lol:

    Where would you start paying out reparations? Would you start with the Romans paying the Israelites or their descendants?

    And who should pay these reparations? I mean my family did not come here until way after the American Indians had been booted - come to think of it - do you consider the sweetheart deals they have with their casinos a form of reparation payments :lol: Why should I have to pay for something neither I nor my family did? In fact, I think I am owed a significant amount of money from Russia, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania to name but the four most recent countries my family was kicked out of. Who will pay me and how much am I owed? How do I get the value of realestate that was taken from them by force? Who will value it and how will such said payments be made and by whom?
     
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 06:16 AM) [snapback]393228[/snapback]</div>
    You completely miss the point. just because you personally did not commit the crimes does not mean we as a nation should not acknowledge what we have done. You also assume I meant a monetary sum, again you are wrong and missing the point. Casino deals? Why don't we start by lifting more bans on religious expression by indigenious people? Maybe we could stop trying to poison them and their land with resource extraction and maybe, just maybe we should say we are sorry......

    The world is changing and the elitist dominator attitude has no place in this new world if we are to continue in a good way. Idealist? Maybe, but I also see through the fascade of arrogance and the veil of ignorance and know that this cannot be the way of the future.
     
  3. Walker1

    Walker1 Empire

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Feb 20 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]393223[/snapback]</div>
    I don't care about who did what to who. I said at an early age we needed to stop all immigration. The US is turning into a 3rd world pesthole thatnks to liberal thinking. Why would anybody want more people here? Only an idiot would want more aliens. Like I said, we have too many people here now. There is no need for more people.

    Not all of us share liberal views on immigration.
     
  4. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Feb 20 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]393230[/snapback]</div>
    I am sure you are not an idealist.

    Let me ask you something. If you believe we are responsible for ponying up to the bar and making reparation payments for who we have "wronged", what are your thoughts on getting paid for what we have done right. Let me be specific here, and I will provide just a few examples and let me know what you think should be done if anything:

    1. Tsunami rescue - it cost American taxpayers $10-$20 MILLION a day. should we be repaid?
    2. WWII - 400,000 American lives lost freeing France/Germany, Italy from tyranny. Now add it HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars in equipment - should we be repaid.
    3. Foreign Aid - when countries who we provide with significant amounts of food and money get the capability of paying us back - should they?

    I say, if you are of the mind that Americans should pay for the "wrongs" we may have committed, why not get paid for our "expenses" of doing right? In fact, by being "paid" to do right, would that not help keep America on the correct path - seeing how this capitalist society would respond to such inducement?
     
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 06:43 AM) [snapback]393240[/snapback]</div>

    I know, building walls was quite common for people who think like you. :)


    Bandaid thinking.... Lets instead try solving for patterns.
     
  6. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]393240[/snapback]</div>
    We agree - I would posit we allow targeted immigration of people whose skills and talents we need and those seeking refuge from real oppression.

    That's it. And I would chase ALL employers who hire illegal immigrants. That would stop it quickly.

    But I am having tooooo much fun with those who want open borders - they are not even touching my point of why not just let everyone in that wants to come it.
     
  7. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    I find it odd that the fed takes in $$ connected to SSN's connected to employers, but seemingly doesn't find the time to do something about companies using piles of workers who's ssn's don't file federal returns.

    Seems to me db querries would reveal lots of 10 or more workers for the same employer who failed to file... maybe a sign of bad ssn's here? Jack up the fines for employers, make them huge and use the irs database to figure out which companies to visit first.

    Then, when we get into a worker vaccume, fix the immigration (legal immigration) gate. Make it work, take DNA and fingerprints and mugshots, keep the criminals out, let the right amount of the good guys in through a working inlet system.

    If the inlet system is not working now, that's no reason to greenlight everyone who is here illegally. Everyone goes out and comes back in through the front door the legal way.

    The exit gate is wide open. If you want to leave America, you can pretty easily do it. In fact, I was hoping Micheal Moore and Al Gore would set an example of this, but apparently this dream of mine will go unfulfilled.
     
  8. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Feb 20 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]393243[/snapback]</div>
    just answer my questions if you would. the lack of an answer says enough if you choose not to.

    in terms of building walls - yes - and high - thank you. and i would have a guest worker program and a national ID card with biometrics too - of course for people who think like me.

    so after you answer my questions which i doubt you will becuase they show the fallacy of your thinking, please instruct me and people who think like me as to how you would "solve patterns" (whatever that means) that I think you are referring to give rise to illegal immigration into the United States of America.
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 05:30 AM) [snapback]393210[/snapback]</div>
    You may be tired of hearing it, but that doesn't make it any less the truth. Your attitude seems to be, "I got in, so shut the damn doors!"

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Feb 20 2007, 06:52 AM) [snapback]393245[/snapback]</div>
    The IRS won't do that, for the same reason it allows undocumented workers to have TIN numbers so that they can legally pay taxes for working illegally: Money. The IRS wants the money. If they went after employers based on withholding taxes tied to fake SSN numbers, those employers would stop sending in the taxes.

    See, what all you anti-immigration people are failing to take into account is that the real roadblock to excluding undocumented workers is that big business wants those workers. Liberals push for better treatment for the workers, and support individual rights. But it's big business that brings them here, because hiring them is very profitable. And big business runs the country. So the demagogs put up all sorts of intentionally-ineffective barriers to placate xenophobic voters. But anybody who implemented real barriers to immigration would have the rug pulled out from under him, find himself out of office, and none of those sweetheart deals to work for a big corporation for six- or seven-figure salaries for services rendered while in government.

    If you really think that "illegal" immigration is ruining the country, your enemy is big business, not bleeding-heart liberals. And no politician of either party is going to buck the core interests of big business.
     
  10. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    Our immigration policies should exactly mirror each other country. If they only allow 1000 US immigrants we should allow 1000 of their citizens. If they don't allow immigrants to own ocean front property, or what ever we should respond in kind. What about those illegals who have come since Reagan made all illegals legal? We have a date certain to start from. Huge fines for employers who hire them for a start. When they get hungry enough they'll leave (or be allowed to request a one way ticket). What about the wealthy illegals? When discovered confiscate all assets and a one way ticket out. Who'd want to live under such a cloud? Now, LEGAL immigration like most of our relatives should continue. What I object most about illegal immigration is the attitude of make money then take it and run back home. This is not a recipe for building community when you know you are only temporary. Wanna immigrate here legally and plan to stay the rest of your life, learn our customs, volunteer in your community, make a better future for yourself and your children? Great and welcome. Wanna take what you can and run? Not welcome. Children of illegals should be granted the same rights as we would be granted if we illegally were in their home country and had a kid. Near as I can tell, illegal immigration is fueled by two things, 1) a wish for greater earnings than is available in the home country (could be done via legal immigration) and 2) Corporations sucking the life out of desperate people (could be curtailed by huge fines, perhaps coming from the CEO's salary). We liberals are such pussycats as you can see by this post by an avowed liberal.
     
  11. Walker1

    Walker1 Empire

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 10:43 AM) [snapback]393286[/snapback]</div>

    You got it! Shut the door and lock and latch it- along with a fence that keeps Mexicans where they belong-in Mexico.
    You call us "Anti immigration people." You're damn right and as far as I'm concerned you and all your sick, twisted weenie, liberal friends should leave the US and go bother another country. I'm sure they won't put up with your ideas.
     
  12. livelychick

    livelychick Missin' My Prius

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]393326[/snapback]</div>
    If we did that, the intelligence level in the US would drop by at least 50%. And yes, most other industrialized countries DO put up with our ideas. Research a bit before you say something so ridiculously stupid.
     
  13. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    Walker1, Can you just feel the love? You can tell they really like you, if they call you names & make fun of your posts.... ;) :) :D
     
  14. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]393326[/snapback]</div>
    Try being an "illegal" immigrant anywhere else. Better yet, try not learning their language :lol:
     
  15. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 20 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]393349[/snapback]</div>
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]393326[/snapback]</div>
     
  16. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]393286[/snapback]</div>
    The westerners came here, conquered the indians and now the door is shut.

    When the Chinese come here, conquer us, they can make the new rules.

    Until then, the door is closed.

    minus a few cracks in the fence that need fixed.
     
  17. Walker1

    Walker1 Empire

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 12:36 PM) [snapback]393340[/snapback]</div>
    Research? I'm not talking about research. I'm talking about a Govt. bent on bringing as many 3rd worlders here as possible to totally destroy the middle/lower middle class as possible. You are exactly the kind of person I would love to see disappear from the face of the earth. You are unimportant as is what you are trying to defend.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 20 2007, 12:51 PM) [snapback]393349[/snapback]</div>
    I don't care what they like as long as I don't have to keep putting up with & paying for all their assnine ideas and mistakes. If it wasn't for them this country would be not be headed into destruction. When I was young it was that Kennedy/Johnson bunch that started the destruction of our country. And the worst part of it is most ALL liberals are white people defending illegal immigration, welfare, and non-white immigration quotas. That's too Fuc**d up for me to understand. I fail to understand why a group of whites would set out to destroy their own kind.

    Oh, now it's time for them to use the Hitler or KKK card against me.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]393352[/snapback]</div>
    I am not a law breaker. I have no desire to live in a foreign country. I have no desire to learn a foreign language. Any other questions?
     
  18. AnOldHouse

    AnOldHouse Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 18 2007, 05:20 PM) [snapback]392522[/snapback]</div>
    Exactly what established laws were violated by European colonization here in America?

    Seems to be lots of actual documentation of plenty of furs and coats being traded for real estate in the colonies.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 19 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]392894[/snapback]</div>
    If they're here illegally, then yes, they most certainly are criminals. Illegal=criminal. Get it now?
     
  19. livelychick

    livelychick Missin' My Prius

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]393394[/snapback]</div>
    When I said "research," I meant that you should actually know of what you speak. It's blatantly apparent that you don't, but are so hate-filled that it makes you appear even more stupid.

    I think you should pack up and move to a little hole in North Dakota, become a survivalist (a la the Unibomber), and never have to talk to anyone that may have a slightly different background than you.

    And you know what? I am important. I'm needed to balance the idiocy of assinine folks like you. It's apparent that you hate the country and its inhabitants. I happen to love this country and all that it can be and sometimes is. One of the many things that make it great is its eclecticism, something which you apparently don't like. Seriously, there are miles and miles of uninhabited wasteland in Montana, North, and South Dakota. Move there if you want nothing to do with immigrants. You definitely shouldn't be in Florida--I bet Cuban coffee makes you NUTS! And rum. Plantains. Mojitos. Margaritas. Salsa. Too bad you're surrounded!

    If you want to hang out with mostly white middle class folks, Greenland may be a great place for you. Oh, but it's probably ran by liberals, too. Like England. And Germany. And France. And Sweden (it's conservatism is more liberal than U.S. liberalism). And Canada. And New Zealand. And Australia. And Norway. And Italy. And Spain. Notice any commonalities?

    Seriously, TR, you should really start reading a bit (if you can) before you type.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Feb 20 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]393399[/snapback]</div>
    D'ya ever break the speed limit? It's illegal. Thus, you are a criminal. As am I. I think it's a forgivable crime. See earlier analogy, and throw in some empathy, and maybe you'll "Get it now?" Or is that too hard for you?
     
  20. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]393413[/snapback]</div>
    Please tell me, why do you not favor opening our borders to all who want to come here?