illegal immigration

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]393416[/snapback]</div>

I do favor it, with stipulations regarding criminal background and communicable diseases which would entail some sort of screening process. And of course, we shouldn't allow in people whose names sound like dogs' names. Apparently, you haven't read my posts. I didn't know you couldn't pick up on context clues.

And regardless of what you say, even opening the borders to all, I don't think it would make that much of a difference to the number who come in.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]393413[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: Wow, talk about lame-o analogies. So you think that being an illegal alien is just a minor, forgivable "infraction" as a speeding ticket? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Plenty of empathy here. As I've already posted, I'm all for LEGAL immegration. Non-criminal immigrants with thorough background checks who are willing to learn the language and become a citizen, great! Ligitimate and stringently controlled guest worker program? Fine with me.

But illegal aliens are criminals. Period. End of story.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Feb 20 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]393426[/snapback]</div>

We're on the same page for legal immigration. What I propose is that far too many deserving folks are turned down for no good reason. If they stay on illegally, working, I do think it's a forgivable crime.

I said earlier that I don't have it figured out. I just know that we don't 1) kick 'em out, 2) have a guest worker program (that's just calling for trouble. Look at France a year or so ago.), 3) go to the other extreme and open our borders to EVERYONE (even though the evil doc is trying to get me to say that). There's gotta be a middle ground somewhere.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]393434[/snapback]</div>

So what good are your laws if you allow them a get out of jail free card??

So give us your poor, your huddled masses and those able to weasle their way into here and hold down a job [fill in how long in long enough days/ weeks/ years] and they can stay forever. cool!

How do you define "too many desrving folks"?

How about if they commit a crime? and is there a time limit until they can commit their first crime? and do you draw the line at felony or capital crimes?

JEEEEEEZ

Why bother having any laws at all?

What other crimes would be willing to forgive citizens of this great country? Or do you want to just disregard the immigration laws if the "criminal immigrant" can hold down a job for a few months or weeks?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Feb 20 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]393314[/snapback]</div>

Gosh, John, I am rather taken aback by your stand on this.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]393326[/snapback]</div>

Can't you just feel the love? Apparently Walker1 does not believe in the freedoms enshrined in the Constitution. I think he earns the award for most vitriolic poster on PriusChat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]393352[/snapback]</div>

A bit off topic, maybe, but I was illegal for about 6 months while living in Spain. My tourist visa required me to leave the EU after 6 months (and permitted me to re-enter again immediately) but it didn't work out that way. I did take a couple of trips, which took me out of the European passport union, but there was a one-year stretch when I didn't. Nobody ever asked me for ID the whole time I was there, and since I left the EU via Amsterdam, and the Dutch are so laid-back, they didn't bother to check to see how much time had elapsed since my last entry.

I've read that there are more Canadians than Mexicans living "illegally" in the U.S. But nobody bothers them because they are white and English-speaking. The core issue here is not really immigration: It's racism. People are upset about Mexican immigrants, not because they are "illegal," but because they are brown and speak Spanish. It's the same in Spain: Nobody cared if I was "illegal" because I am white, and I spoke their language, sort of (I never could understand the people in Andalucia, where I lived, due to their dreadful Spanish, but they understood me, because they were used to hearing the Castillian Spanish on radio and TV.) But they go after the Moroccan immigrants, who go to Spain looking for work, as the Mexicans come here, but with the added disadvantage of having a different religion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Feb 20 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]393426[/snapback]</div>

While I don't have numbers, I bet more Americans are killed by speeding drivers than by Mexican immigrants. A speeding ticket may be treated as a minor infraction by the courts, but that's only because of our completely messed-up "justice" system.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]393440[/snapback]</div>

YES!!!!!! Why not? How dare you quote the Statue when it's clear that you don't believe it?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]393440[/snapback]</div>

It's all or nothing with you. You have no concept of grey areas.

My definition of too many deserving folks? How 'bout the doctorate student from Romania who knew the language, was working and going to school and helping support an orphanage in Romania who was denied citizenship? Not a criminal. Knows the language. Passed the tests. Paid the fees. Denied. And if she was denied, how 'bout the poor schmo who isn't a doctorate student but is no less a committed member of society?

Grey areas, doctor evil. It doesn't have to be all the way one way or all the way the other. I just don't believe we close off immigration. I don't believe that we kick all "illegal" aliens out. I believe we fix our system, help support the countries we should help (e.g., Mexico), then we wouldn't be having this argument. I said this same thing in an earlier post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]393446[/snapback]</div>

Right again, Daniel. Nice point! I would add that the taxpayers end up paying a butt-load of money to fix the results of bad driving.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Feb 20 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]393394[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]393413[/snapback]</div>

But where can he hang out with mostly Poor White Trash?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]393448[/snapback]</div>

all or nothing? With the law it like a little lie - once you start, when or where do you stop? Who makes those decisions and why? Becomes way too complex. Immigration laws are there to be obeyed. Break those laws and there must be a price to pay. We let in millions of people a year - do it the way others do - by the book or have the book thrown at you.

Doctor evil - that's an original one. What should i call you - deadlychick, friedchick, schtickchick, etc. why is it our system that is broken when they are the ones here illegally - how about the system they are coming from being broken???? our system is doing ok - and would not want to change it for a few illegals who should at best be here on a guest worker program with federally monitored ID cards. and who pays for the medical care, and how about all the massive amounts of crime they commit?? I read somewhere that illegal aliens are responsible for more deaths here of Americans in a year than we lose in Iraq over the same time period. What % of the jail population in CA, NM, TX are illegals?? and what do you want to do about that.

And why do we have to support other countries - oops - i guess you mean supporting Iraq - we agree.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Feb 20 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]393504[/snapback]</div>

I'm guessing you have to find out where Walker1 lives.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]393434[/snapback]</div>

The process to immigration for citizenship should deliberately be difficult and time consuming, but not impossible. It needs to mean something, otherwise it only diminishes the value of our own citizenship. It certainly meant something big to the millions who came through Ellis Island as many of my ancestors did. It can't be open to the entire world. There do need to be reasonable limitations set such that any influx does not devalue US citizenship as a whole, negatively impact our economy, etc., but it should certainly be open to a wider audience of qualified candidates than it is now.

Existing, working, illegal aliens need to be given a time limit, just as though they were here on a work visa and it needs to be enforced, of course. They should not be given any priority to citizenship over other qualified candidates from their home countries who are law-abiding and have not made themselves criminals by sneaking across an international border.

Further, illegals who come here just to have their children born here, their children should not be considered citizens. Only children born here to legal citizens should be considered citizens themselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]393529[/snapback]</div>

Another fallacy. Just because you read it, Doc, doesn't make it true. In fact, I suspect most of what you read are lies and truth-twists, based on your other threads.

Deadlychick sounds good. Kinda like an assassin. I'm going to do my best Brando imitation now..."Are you an assassin?...You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill."

I miss Brando. RIP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 20 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]393529[/snapback]</div>

The book is flawed.

So murder is murder?
Battery is battery?

The law is not the same for every end act. If I punch you in the nose in self-defense, I'm not put in jail. If I punch you in the nose because you're a dumb-nice person, I'm put in jail.

There are exceptions, doc, and there should be. And as far as who makes those decisions, that's pretty obvious. Our government (Congress and the President), with the USCIS department carrying it out. Same people who make decisions to build big walls in the middle of the desert.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]393540[/snapback]</div>

Me too. Excellent movie, full of great quotes.

The bullshit piled up so fast you needed wings to stay above it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 20 2007, 05:22 PM) [snapback]393542[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like he was describing the doc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]393446[/snapback]</div>

Citation? Here's one: wikipedia. Which says about 7 million Mexican and 700,000 Euros and Canadians. Considering the population of Canada is about 30 million, I think they'd notice if 7 or 8 million were missing.

This is a heated topic, but just BS'ing doesn't help.

 

The solution:

1) Set up a system that ALL employers have to use to verify an employees citizenship:
2) Fine all employers $10,000.00 per illegal that they employ (no excuse)
3) Deport all illegals who; are arrested, issued a traffic citation, go to a hospital (after treatment of course not totally heartless and yes many will not go seek treatment because of this tactic they have to chose, there health and deportation or death)
4) support for all immigrants that apply legally to become citizens (even though not all will)
5) Deport the parents of anchor babies, allow the child to remain with legal residents or to come back whenever he can provide support for himself or enter foster care. Child maintains U.S. Citizenship however parents cannot receive any social security benefits;
6) strip all but life saving benefits from illegal;
7) Tax heavily money U.S. banks to Mexico;


We (America) did not take the illegals land, ever! Mexico, and in part all of central and south america, can be just as prosperous as we are, plus they don't have any pesky environmental regulations to bother them. Don't make U.S. like Mexico!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]393422[/snapback]</div>

Spoken like someone who lives inland. Although my libertarian tendencies agree that the border should be open, let's not kid ourselves that the teeming slums of Juarez and Tijuana wouldn't catch the next bus North. And absent a zoning crackdown on shanty towns (believe it that some would argue against, especially if it excluded Marin County), those of Ciudad Mexico would follow shortly.

 

Question for anti-immigration folk: Are you happy simply because Anne Frank was not allowed into the country, or are you upset that some Jews actually were allowed in?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]393446[/snapback]</div>

I'm glad you think that your citizenship holds as little value than an arbitrary speed limit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]393448[/snapback]</div>

Again, the analogy between the value of proper citizenship and an arbitrary speed limit is ridiculous, if not downright repulsive.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Feb 20 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]393562[/snapback]</div>

Better yet, change the laws such that there is no such thing as an "anchor" baby. Children born here to illegal immigrant parents should immediately be considered illegal as well. Sent them all back and make them earn immigration and citizenship legally like anyone else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Feb 20 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]393540[/snapback]</div>

Funny, you simply and enthusiastically accepted Daniel's assertion that more people are killed through speeding than are killed by illegal aliens, even though he even said he had nothing to back up the claim.

On the otherhand, even if Daniel is correct (again, he said he doesn't "have the numbers" and is only "betting" he's right), at least it's a problem that may have a societal cost that is caused by our own citizens who already belong here, not people who are here illegally.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 20 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]393446[/snapback]</div>

Actually, it would not be a "messed-up justice system", but the laws that are established by your elected legistatures. Like them or not, they have set values on each infraction. Speeding is a generally a stiff fine, unless it's chronic, and then will lead to revocation of driver's license.

I would much rather law enforcement actively pursue cases of real crimes of illegal immigration, which supports the value of legal immigration and the value of citizenship.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Feb 20 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]393574[/snapback]</div>

That will require a constitutional amendment.