I'm confused: Charging, Timer

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by peakay, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. la-tin phv

    la-tin phv Junior Member

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    Yep, did all that a lot of times, always double check, always ask the wife if she's setting it.
    BTW, I don't use AM/PM. I am more comfortable with 21:00 vs 9:00 so yea, we are sure it's 21:00 START time, not finish time. Set to start at 21:00.
    BTW, as I mentioned later last night, I did witness (heard, didn't see) it stopped 10-15 min into charging, while I was doing something in the garage. Alas, didn't see what came up at the dashboard when it happened.

    My concern is maybe a bug is lurking and the finish time interfere, but I also set that to 9:00 (12 hrs or farthest possible from start time).

    Thanks for double checking everything tho! Anything else?




    Merged, use multi quote.




    Yep. Thanks for clarifying. No, not confused about the Start and Finish timer working together. They are independent, or at least SHOULD BE independent (I'm worried there might be a bug in my 2012 software).
    We only use Start time, so allowing enough time for charging is not the issue here. Not confused by AM PM either. We use what the US calls 'military time'. we use Start 21:00, but also set finish 09:00 (which is unused so shouldn't matter, as mentioned).

    Yep, did all that as well. I also did this while the car is already "off", although I think it doesn't matter, cause I used to be able to get full charge even when I turn the timer while driving back home.

    Yep, agreed, it's not analog, I just didn't bother to reply. I think that was a troll.. cause obviously there's no spring or gears or any sort of analog clock's components in the Prius dashboard! :)

    Any idea how to COMPLETELY disable the FINISH time vs just NOT selecting it? Is there a magic "time" that can do this? Any backdoor/hack to disable it?






    Merged, use multi quote








    Heh.. I just noticed this comment.
    It's interesting that in my 2012 PIP the clock skews a minute or two over a month-2 month period. My older Prius (gen 2) was more accurate, never needed adjustment.

    Could this be related to my charging timer problem!? But then once the charging starts, the way I understand it is the timer went off completely until next time you set it again, so beats me!!?
     
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  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    VERY strange! I don't think the clock's slight inaccuracy would have anything to do with the charging anomalies. Mine wanders about the same as yours. It was a while before it was off by a minute and I was starting to wonder if it was synching the car clock to match my phone when I plugged it in. Which I think is too easy of a function for the Toyota engineers to have not done, but I guess they didn't do that.
     
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  3. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Alright, time to do an experiment. Use the finish timer. Set it to finish at 0:00. This should more or less be identical to a start timer of 21:00.
     
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  4. la-tin phv

    la-tin phv Junior Member

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    I might do that this weekend, when I can really change the clock and use start/finish timer just to test things out. Time to camp out in the garage! lol

    BTW, I'm taking it to Toyota dealer today (typing this up while waiting). There's apparently a TSB on the charging cable rubber (orange) grommet that can come off and cause the plug to not fit in there. Mine is all good though, I even brought it in.

    I am pretty sure it's something with the computer, because it consistently stops around 10-20 min, and about 1.x miles of charge.
    Has anyone noticed the charging has several (at least 3 I noticed if I am waiting at public charging station) 'stops' or 'pause' where I think it's transferring to a separate cell or something? I think that's the problem. So in normal condition it transfers fine, but I think in this case it never resumes.
    Does anyone know or have any info how the charging works? Why are there pauses/stops? Or is it just mine?

    What's ridiculous is they want to charge me $175 to do hybrid diag, just in case there's some outside factor that damages the batt system, and I said, well, what if it's warrantied item or if you cannot find any problem? They said they'll waive in either case, but let's see. Even with CA law it's still tricky I guess. This is at Dublin, CA Toyota.

    UPDATE from DUBLIN TOYOTA:
    - Diagnostic retrieved the history of charging failure (unfortunately only last 6, and no time/date in the log), and mostly didn't say much but cancelled
    - Tech tried charging also, and experienced the same behavior - stopped after 10-20 min
    - Tech noticed aux batt is low during these tests, so he thinks it's related
    - In fact, diagnostic procedure requires the low batt issue to be eliminated first, so it calls for batt to be replaced first before continuing, which costs $304 here

    That sounds ridiculous, sounds like a flaw in Toyota diag procedure.
    Toyota should either be able to continue and finish the diagnostic by plugging the aux batt into some batt maintainer (to maintain proper voltage, 12-14 volt), or by replacing the batt with temporary batt they have in the shop or whatever.
    Sounds strange that customer has to pay $304 to replace a part to continue diag that's only $175.

    Also the battery is sealed AGM with 84 months life (though they argue for new car aux batt warranty is only 3yr/36k miles). So far there has been no sign of low battery either. Usually there will be signs like can't start the car, can't open the trunk. These hybrids are aux batt dependent! And I know from experience the original battery lasts a long time (my gen 2 - same aux batt - had a batt that lasted for 7-8 yrs).

    I also argued that the aux batt as the cause doesn't quite make sense because it ALWAYS stops at 1.x miles and then once unplugged/plugged back in, it continues all the way to full.
    If this was due to aux batt, there has to be another interruption in the remaining 7-8 miles (my batt is about 9-10 miles now fully charged) because the aux batt is constantly trickling down due to all kinds of sensors in the car, and yet the charging is fine for 80-90% of the charging time.

    What do you guys think?
     
  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Aux battery being low causes all kinds of weird things to happen, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only cause of the charging problem. But I haven't heard of that before.

    $304 for the Toyota battery seems a little high to me. Mine was $195.27 including installation and taxes at Sun Toyota near my house. And they washed the car for me, too. You'd think, though, that they could temporarily connect a known good battery and test it before making you pay for anything.
     
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  6. la-tin phv

    la-tin phv Junior Member

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    Thank you! Sounds like I am not the only one thinking this way. If they were to diagnose this completely, they should've had all those troubleshooting "tools" in their toolbox, including battery maintainer of some sort that can ensure aux batt circuit has enough current/voltage/whatever.

    Anyway, I have to give them credits though. They realize I know my stuff and they waived the diag charge, let me experiment further at home with batt maintainer, and they even said go get 2nd/3rd opinion from other dealerships and see. I guess the service manager is a reasonable guy. Well, actually even the tech (they took me back to the shop) and foreman were all good with reasoning and at the end they agreed it seems battery is just a factor but not really the main culprit.
    Hats off to Dublin Toyota. Not often dealerships like this big will reason with you.

    On to next experimentation for me I guess...
     
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  7. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    I would expect the charging rate to be variable based on different factors. For example, it would stop completely if battery temperatures get too high. I never listened to the charging in my car so I'm not aware of any pauses.

    Your description of Dublin Toyota doesn't convey a lot of confidence in the techs there, especially the necessary battery replacement charge as a diagnostic procedure.

    From your last post, it's not clear to me if you've isolated this problem as a timer issue or an altogether charging issue. You mentioned the charging stops at public chargers as well.
     
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  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Intermittent problems are really frustrating sometimes. While this isn't quite intermittent, it's pretty hard to catch in the act. And then you probably have to catch it several times to really know where to look.

    For what it's worth, I have noticed that my charging amperage goes way down as the battery fills. Not sure if it's because the battery is warming or because it is preventing warming based on assumptions related to SOC.
     
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  9. la-tin phv

    la-tin phv Junior Member

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    Hi there.
    I think at this point this is not a timer issue. I have been able to reproduce this without a timer.
    Did I say it stopped at a public charging? I must have been smoking something. I never noticed it stopped in public charging like chargepoint. Maybe I was trying to contrast but was rushing?
    A couple of weekends ago I took the son to the mall to a lego store and charged there from almost empty to full no problem.

    Dublin Toyota - Yeah, I think the guy says he can't get another battery because once it's opened it cannot be put back on shelf, and they just don't have a battery maintainer or floater or whatever, I think for liability/safety reason. My guess is they are afraid those things can fry the Prius complicated electronics, so they stay away from those. do not know...
     
  10. la-tin phv

    la-tin phv Junior Member

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    Yea, I think it's becoming more now and I have been able to catch a couple more times when it fails to "continue".
    The way I think of this is almost like cellular signals moving from tower to tower. I also heard a bit of a higher pitch noise when the charging is about to stop abruptly. Not sure what to make of it.

    I have not tried to do this with a battery maintainer due to 2 reasons: I don't have a separate circuit in garage to do that, and I am concerned the maintainer might do something to the aux batt system. If the Toyota tech is right, he's saying during the charging of the main batt, sometimes it draws higher current from aux battery to run the computer.

    BTW, yes, that current goes way down in my case too towards the completion of charging. Usually in the last 30 min. I think it's realted to SOC.
     
  11. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Not a timer issue. Full charge at public chargers. Next thing to check is your EVSE. Can you try charging your car with another EVSE? If the problem crops up after 15 minutes, you're free to visit my place in Martinez and we can troubleshoot it together.
     
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  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Amp reduction as charge-level approaches "full" (that's actually 85%) is yet another longevity behavior, total normal.

    It's good to know too. Not being linear means you get more from a quick top-off than expected... both with 240 and 120.
     
  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Meet up in Martinez:whistle:?
     
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  14. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    Hahaha, just trying to pay if forward.
     
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