1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

I'm kind of sad the more I learn about Teslas

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by Isaac Zachary, Feb 17, 2023.

Tags:
  1. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,687
    6,375
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Are you referring to the HD-radio IBOC-on-AM deal? I kinda forgot that was a thing after reading about some tests years ago.

    ...Well look at that! hdradio.com says the USA now has 8 AM HD-digital stations. I don't live near enough any to receive.
     
  2. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This was something else I was trying to investigate. When digital TV came out it was necessary to figure out what TV's came with digital tuners and which didn't. Otherwise you'd need a digital tuning box. I think the same will happen with AM and FM, that eventually they'll be digitallized. They are already becoming digital in many areas. I don't see the change as a big deal, but with cars not having replaceable stereos anymore it would be nice if newer cars came with digital tuners, or if there were some upgrade path of some sort.

    So you're saying newer Teslas can still tune to 580 to 1700kHz and tune into digital signals on those frequencies but not AM signals?
     
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,687
    6,375
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Oh, they started including HD tuners in cars around 2005, and it started really taking off about 8 years ago. By now I'd say if a given new car still receives radio it will definitely be HD-capable.

    One big difference between digital radio and digital television (as implemented in the USA) is that digital radio is transmitted on exactly the same frequencies as its analog basis, and there is no pressure to reassign that RF spectrum for any other purpose.

    This is in contrast to digital TV where everything was shuffled twice, resulting in tuners becoming obsolete.
     
    #23 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
    Tideland Prius and Isaac Zachary like this.
  4. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I will try that. But bluetooth ain't working so I'll have to also buy an small 12V FM transmitter.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    We have hd am in our 10 year old Toyotas. You can turn it on and off.
    On sounds like buzzing in a tin can
     
  6. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Is HD truely digital?

    Digital signals are lossless. You either get them or you don't. If you get a digital signal it is going to be clear with zero interference. If there's noise then it's the radio's fault.
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,687
    6,375
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two

    You can use methods like forward error correction to allow a complete bitstream to be recovered even when a significant portion was not received clearly. HD radio uses this extensively.

    There's also a well developed (50+ years) system called concealment where the impacts of lost audio data can be minimized. I don't know if HD radio uses this but I feel safe assuming that they do.

    Also, because the HD radio system is transmitted "on top of" the analog signal, it is easy for the receiver to kick down to analog mode if reception is just too poor. In the early days there were many problems with synchronization, but they've gotten better.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    In my Prius, the inability to turn of traction control is what hampered rocking. I've done it with other automatic transmissions.

    I did catch an ad for a drive-in not too long ago. Maybe beginning of the pandemic. They were running a double feature of the latest Godzille movie with Detective Pikachu. Wish I had gone.

    And they all buy from the same factory on Alibaba.

    In the Subaru, you had to turn on the ability to get the HD stations in the settings. Otherwise the radio display just acted like a non-HD unit.

    With the HD stations, I don't get static. If there is interference, the station just goes silent.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,035
    10,010
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ... just one letter short of "Homicidal".
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    No idea, the sound is consistently tinny, and we’re just outside Boston. We keep it off
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,467
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    We've got a Tesla in the family. I'm afraid to drive it... :unsure:
     
  12. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm sure this is just cheap manufacturing of the receiver unit. This is basically what Tesla and others want to do avoid spending more on nice AM receivers. Again, this is fine, not a deal breaker, not the end of the world. But then they axe the auxilary 3.5mm port too to make it nearly impossible to add something yourself.

    There's a Tesla in the police force in the town just north of here. I wonder how they connect their police radios to the sound, or if they just use separte speakers. CB radio? Amateur radio? How are you supposed to use those in a Tesla?

    About 8 miles east and 8 miles west of where I live all cellphone signals get cut off for dozens of miles afterwards. I also do not have data on my phone and don't really care to get it either. I'm stubborn, I know, and I'm the minority.

    I still like Teslas though.
     
    #32 Isaac Zachary, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,467
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    There's an un-tapped market, for Luddite vehicles.

    I think a lot the new beads and trinkets in cars are there for the benefit of... the manufacturers. Yes I know, hard to believe they would stoop..., maybe not that hard.

    Case in point, a touch screen with vital heat/vent controls, that USED to be ergonomic sliders and dials, with detents, that you could find and adjust, without ever taking your eyes off the road. Now, you get to play with an iPad, till you're alerted by honking from the oncoming traffic.
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,154
    4,145
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    I don’t think you do, or at least I don’t understand why?
    You seem to really like manual transitions, AM radio, basically 30-50 year old technology.

    This is fine, there is nothing wrong with liking old, familiar tech. But a Tesla is the opposite of that. Nothing old, everything new. There are EVs that have some trappings of older tech (even they won’t have a manual transmission).

    As for the Police vehicle, odds are good they use USB ports to connect to the vehicle, and/or the vehicle was adapted for police service.
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  15. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    2,642
    1,133
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern S.C.
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I haven't listened to AM in many decades.

    My lower-middle-priced, ~1-year old, VoLTE-capable Motorola smartphone includes an FM radio feature. So did both flip phones I had earlier. All three required plugging in an earphone (as antenna, in addition to its usual purpose).
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  16. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I like how things work internally. I don't always like the superficial interface that is put in between the user and the actual hardware, but I understand it can make things easier for most people. Not everyone knows how to type in MS DOS or Terminal commands (or Basic back in the day).

    I like that Tesla is far ahead of most everyone else when it comes to EV's. I like how they have lower profile motors. Seems like everyone else can't have a front trunk (that's what I called in my 1972 Beetle) because their motors and inverters are way too big.

    I like how they've combined a permanent magnet motor with a reluctance motor. This is very interesting on how it works as PM's are better at lower speeds and SynRM's are more efficient at higher speed. Put the two together and you get a great, over-all design that's compact and efficient.

    And adding stacks of magnents that are electrically isolated from eachother instead of a few big magnents to reduce eddy currents. Why doesn't everyone else do that?

    Tesla is the only company selling EV's in the USA with LiFePO4 batteries. These charge faster than typical lithium ion batteries and are also non-flammable. They also should last longer than NMC batteries. They don't have as much energy density, so are used on the standard range Teslas, but that's fine for me because I don't have a lot of money and would probably get a standard range Tesla.

    I'm also impressed with their charging speeds.

    They're doing it right with aerodynamics too. There's a reason their SUV's look like blimped sedans. It's because a boxy rear end is terrible for aerodynamics. But that's exactly what most other EV's come with (Bolt, Leaf, Etc.).

    So no, I don't like the iPad interface and I don't like the lack of AM and lack of an auxiliary audio port and things like these. But is the Tesla mechanically superior than a Bolt or a Leaf?

    Better charging, better life, non-flammable, better aerodynamics, better motor design, but no AM radio and no aux port... Tesla
     
    #36 Isaac Zachary, Feb 19, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2023
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The Charge EV might have one, and not a simulated one.
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  18. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    1,708
    823
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Porsche already has a two speed automatic. But could a two speed manual be offered? Maybe a type of motor, like PM, that work best at lower RPM's could be paired with a transmission instead of trying to make a motor that has a broad speed range?

    I'm even kind of liking the idea of a pseudo transmission. Maybe it doesn't even have to have a typical shifter. Just something that limits full torque. It was kind of nice driving a manual knowing that if I pushed down kind of hard on the accelerator it wasn't going to try to lunge forward with all its might. Having the ability to chose regenertive braking at separate levels would also be handy. The clutch pedal isn't even necessary as long as there's a way to turn of no-pedal torque. Just cut all power when you take the foot off the pedal at a stop.
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Many EV conversions used a DC motor mated to the factory manual.
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,066
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    My recent trip to DC included 4 hours on I-81 in the Shenandoah Valley:
    upload_2023-2-19_6-10-44.png
    The mountains limit FM signals to those along the route:
    • Right-Wing Christian Radio - the largest block if this is appealing. Their 'news' repeats Q-Anon and resentment programming.
    • Singing Through Pinched Nose Country Music - hints of yodeling often complaining of who done wrong ... no confessions about being the one who done the wrong. Resentment lyrics. This is far, far removed from Blue Grass.
    • Public Radio Dead Zone - having a couple of large universities often has light-weight, fact based news with classic music filler.
    My preference is to have my iPhone loaded with albums of my music: Alanis Morissette, The Band, Bob Dylan, Devo, Eurythmics, The Firesign Theater, Julie Brown, Little River Band, Ok Go, Robert Palmer, Samir Mezrahi ... Pink Floyd, Joe Cocker, Moody Blues, Rocky Mountain Boys, Mozart ... Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Rolling Stones, Beatles ... Bill Monroe.

    Then set the iPhone to randomly play the songs.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #40 bwilson4web, Feb 19, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2023
    Isaac Zachary likes this.