Image From the 4G press event (MPG and HP)

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by Russell Frost, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. Russell Frost

    Russell Frost the whatdrives.us guy

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    I just found on this the web. I thought it might be of interest. Some specs for the 4G Prius.

    Note from Danny: Photo removed at Toyota's request.
     
    #1 Russell Frost, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2015
  2. KyleSTL

    KyleSTL Junior Member

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    If that is correct (and in kW units), the total system power is 162 HP (+ 21% from Gen III).
     
  3. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    I also saw the image before it was quickly removed by the source (which won't be identified as this information is reported to be Embargoed until Nov 18, and I know the post was accidental. I will only say that they're not affiliated with PriusChat).

    It does say system net horsepower, not kW. Net would be a combination of ICE and battery. What we don't get from this image is ICE horsepower + battery horsepower (or kW output), though if we knew one, we could derive the other. What matters more, however, is torque, as that's the motive acceleration force. Horsepower only matters for sustained speeds, and what we care about here is how efficiently it generates that power (or fractions of peak HP at typical sustained loads). Either way, 121 is down ~9%

    The EPA numbers are very interesting, and for the first time, we see a significant difference between trims to justify two EPA figures.

    54 city, 50 highway, 52 combined for normal trims.
    58 city, 53 highway, 56 combined for the Prius 2 Eco trim. If I recall correctly, this is the version with no spare, active grill shutters, and possibly a Lithium Ion battery.

    I imagine with some increased tire pressures, we'll see folks well into the 60mpg range.
     
    #3 HTMLSpinnr, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  4. Russell Frost

    Russell Frost the whatdrives.us guy

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    "Pulled" by whom? I had no idea. Nor was I aware that this was embargoed information.
     
  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Hope this slide is wrong. 52 mpg combined EPA is far from the promised 10% improvement in the core model.

    On this slide the eco hits the 10% improvement mark (12%), but was supposed to beat this, and would guess by more than a smidgen.
     
  6. talonts

    talonts VFAQman

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    It will be interesting to see exactly how they get those differing numbers. Obviously weight will have something to do with it, but you can only pull out so much weight. Though imagine if they did an XR3-like version (2 doors, foam core platform replacing rear seat, etc)...
     
  7. chinna

    chinna Member

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    I believe that figure. That means Gen 4 down on HP considerably. We know for sure Motor Torque is less too. We have to see in real world how turns out. May be it can match Gen 3 in acceleration, or may be even slower by half-a-second. No wonder Toyota kept mum about the total figure even after several reveals, because that is not a good news.

    It seems, Chassis is improved considerably but power was reduced at the same time.
    Probably Chassis team and Powertrain team worked in isolation without knowing each other what other party is trying to achieve.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    The mpg numbers don't seem to have gone through editorial review: there should be some explanation, say "city/hwy/combined".

    Also, I've been reading here: the ECO model's improved mpg numbers come at least in part from it's reduced weight putting in an easier mpg testing regimen.
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    I can only imagine that since this was a press event, that what's shown is a pretty typical format to seasoned journalists, and likely accompanied an oral presentation with more specifics. Most of the time, more complete data is given in a press release that they can use once the embargo is lifted.

    Given how Prius numbers have looked in the past, combined with the standard format, we can safely assume City/Highway/Combined.
     
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  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Is the 54/50/52 the 17" wheels version?

    I would think the non-eco models can come with either 15 or 17 depending on the trim.
     
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  11. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    I am not really impressed !
    Yes it gets more MpG but not by much and not as much as promised.
    They said "at least 55 MpG" and achieving it by significantly decreasing horsepower doesn't seem to be the "magic" I expect from Toyota .
    Any care maker can get better fuel economy by reducing horsepower!
    A few people here in Germany who have allready pre-ordered will feel cheated by Toyota because they were told it has 150 hp !
    I guess there is the possibility that image has been photoshoped but who knows ?
    If you close up on the image the second "1" of 121 seems smaller then the first "1" and also the "5"es look different to one another so maybe sombody tried to be creative....
    The "m" of "improved" also looks kind of crooked and so does the "r" !
     
    #11 civicdriver06, Nov 12, 2015
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  12. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    Historically, they didn't separate EPA by wheel size, even though there was an admitted difference.

    It looks like a cropped and straightened version of this image that I've seen floating around on Facebook several places now:

    Note from Danny: Photo removed at Toyota's request.

    Note the glare on the screen and shadow. They tend to match.
     
    #12 HTMLSpinnr, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2015
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  13. Russell Frost

    Russell Frost the whatdrives.us guy

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    some people can make some things so much more complicated than they need to be.

    city/highway/combined
     
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  14. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    This is really bad and somewhat very disappointing news !
    That dammed "Staff Manual" was right after all .
    I hope the 121 hp at least feel like 150 and if they also reduced top speed then I probably should be thankful to Toyota for saving me a lot of money !
    Where is the achievement they made with the new power train ?
    Just 2 combined mpg more than current model ?
     
    #14 civicdriver06, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  15. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    From the Toyota October 13, 2015 U.S. press release:

    Toyota has made significant improvements in its new generation full hybrid powertrain, reducing losses, redesigning and relocating key components and reducing weight. Extensive changes to the transaxle, engine and combined hybrid system, generate an expected 10 percent improvement in EPA estimated MPG on core models, with an Eco model that will achieve an even greater improvement.
    Something is not right here.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's possible Toyota's internal testing was optmistic, or they were bluffing to garner publicity.
     
  17. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I think this just goes to show that the HSD improvements are nearly maxed out and there's not much more that can be done to improve the mpg figures. Let's face it, this set up has limitations and the Gen III was near the top of its limits.
     
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  18. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    10% of 48mpg combined is 4.8mpg. 52mpg combined isn't quite 10%, more like 8%. Close enough?
     
  19. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    But the Gen III is rated at 50 combined.
     
  20. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    First, to be clear, this photo did not originate from me. I went through the presentation on Tuesday. I can say based on what you see in the photo, the HP number is a little misleading. I'll be able to explain that further on the 18th.

    Exactly, @HTMLSpinnr. All of the data was provided orally with slides to supplement and then we were given documentation as well.

    You'll find out on the 18th :whistle:

    Edit: I originally said it was 48, but was corrected. It is 50 combined.
     
    #20 Danny, Nov 12, 2015
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