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In cold temps, ICE turns on at the begining of a trip when I have plenty EV. Why?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Jimbo69ny, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    First really cold spell here - car sat overnight outside at 15F. Ran a couple of short trips this morning where the ICE would normally never fire - and it came on both times, including after shutting it off one time to prevent it from coming on for the rest of the trip. Of course heat, etc. off.

    Second time it came while re-generating down a long hill but with battery only at about 1/2 full. No idea why it came on that time.
     
  2. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    We will probably never know the explanations for all the scenarios for ICE firing up.
    One thing is certain, it is done to protect the traction battery!
     
  3. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    you said outside temp was 15 degrees, that's pretty close to the 14 degree threshold where ICE comes on (as per user manual)
     
  4. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Overnight it was. By the time I actually left in the morning, the car was reading over 20 (it's also a few degrees warmer typically under the carport where it is stored).

    Later in the day it was in the mid-twenties and the car had been fully warmed up ~40 minutes beforehand.
     
  5. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    As I stated earlier when colder temperatures stress the battery more, if battery amperage is greater than the battery's capacity due to colder temps. whether it's discharging or charging via change in voltage drop or jump in voltage the ICE will kick in. Since you were going down hill re-generation is probably so great that at warmer temps ICE would stay off, with colder temps it's greater than the battery can handle.:cool:

    I live in an apartment and I have a 100 watt solar panel in my window, with a charge controller connected between the batteries and the solar panel. When the solar panel is in full sunlight maximum amperage is generated which causes the battery voltage to go to 14.2 VDC which shuts off the charging to the battery, when the battery reaches 13 VDC the solar panel is then reconnected to the battery and charges the battery. The same scenario happens with the PIP.:D
     
  6. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    I suspect your theory is in large part correct. The first time it happened this morning though it was under extremely light load and before I had a chance to regen at all.
     
  7. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    try, (if traffic behind you permits) braking the PIP so you don't go over 25 MPH downhill.:D
     
  8. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Oh, my daily commute can easily be done under 25mph! Normally the only issue I have is that the battery is fully charged for my downhill drive to work! In warmer weather I've figured out how to work around that. Cold weather apparently means new challenges. :)
     
  9. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    yeah, the length of the downhill trip can present a challenge, because you can only limit the re-generation downhill by the speed you go, the length can still exceed total re-generation capacity of the battery despite how slow you go.:cry:
     
  10. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Driving at 20 F or 15 F with no heating? This is beyond me.
    So you burn some 0.01 g of gas or so, so what? It is for a good cause: comfort of driver and passengers.
    Trying to fool (or bypass) the system to avoid ICE operation may also lead to accelerated traction battery degradation.
    Staying in EV at almost all costs is GM Volt philosophy, not PIP.
    After all it's not a torture machine, it's a plug in hybrid and the most efficient one on the market today, why not taking advantage of it?
    Just a thought, my lowest temp in winter is several degrees (centigrade) above freezing and we call it very cold.
     
  11. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Most of my driving in EV mode is 1-2 miles, 4-8 minutes at a time. The seat heaters get adequately warm VERY fast, and as I have hat and gloves on anyways, I am no colder driving EV than not, as I would never get heat from the ICE during these short drives anyways. And because of these short drives, we are really talking the difference between 20-30mpg on ICE and no fuel consumption at all on EV. It adds up to a big difference throughout a long winter.
     
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  12. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    same here. I'm only 2.7 miles from work. I had a 2010 and 2007 Prius. Paid about $30.00 a month for gas. Now I pay $15.00 a month for the use of my Landlord's outlet to charge my PIP. And every six months I fill up my tank with my Sony Rewards BP gas gift card. So in essence I pay nothing for gas.:D
     
  13. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    You probably need to change your signature data though...:D
     
  14. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    Yeah, it was a little skewed because my son drove my PIP to Texas last summer (3500 miles):whistle:
     
  15. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Boy! That will do it! :)
     
  16. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    Couldn't agree more!

    Why don't you just turn the heat down in your home to about 40 save a lot!

    I spend more for beer!
     
  17. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    As I said, trips of less than 2 miles won't get me any significant heat anyhow, and running the ICE for that period will only keep it in warmup mode which depletes the battery while also burning fuel that provides very little contribution to forward momentum. As a result, even the PiP gets sub-30mpg under these conditions. I did SEVEN trips today of less than 3 miles, with one charge mid-day. This would have burned nearly a gallon of fuel in HV mode with all those warmup cycles and I wouldn't have been warmer either. I'd prefer to keep it all electric, and threads like this help me understand all the vagaries of this vehicle.
     
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  18. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    heat and electricity is included in my $408.00 a month rent:D
     
  19. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Great discussion guys. I find it constructive.
     
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    From Toyota's website on who should buy a PIP (bold font for emphasis):

    Should I buy a Prius or the Prius Plug-in?
    The Prius Plug-in operates just like Prius, but it gives you the opportunity to achieve additional fuel economy by driving extended distances in EV Mode.14, 15 This is a great option for drivers who take many short trips and have access to outlets for charging. For instance, it's possible to nearly always run in electric mode and never use a single drop of gas.
     
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