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Inkjet Scam

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Salamander_King, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Please let us know if it works.

    My first printer 30-ish years ago was an HP Laser model. At out low print rate then, the first cartridge lasted so long that the second cartridge, very long past its expiration date, wouldn't work.
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    #102 JimboPalmer, Jun 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Can a 13 years old HP Laserjet be connected to WiFi? I bet it doesn't do the duplex printing either. I think I still have an old HP laser printer I used when I was doing a massive amount of prints, but it has a parallel printer port connection without any network connectively. Today, I need to be able to print via home WiFi from all of our peripherals, Windows PC, iPad, iPhone, Android phone, and Chromebook.

    Oh, I also really need the copy, scan, and fax functionality more than printing capability. I can't remember if All-in-One printer existed 13 years ago.
     
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Many times the toner cartridge includes the photoelectric drum. For best reliability I try wherever possible to use OEM toner cartridges. Years ago I worked for a copier manufacturer. Back then they found third party supplies that came from the same plant but had been rejected by the OEM due to quality issues. I know back in the days of liquid toner we had a lot of support issues due to third party supplies.

    I do buy third party for my old HP laser printer because there are no OEM ones made any longer.
     
    #104 Prodigyplace, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    For a mission-critical business environment, maybe it is best to use OEM parts and supplies. Printer manufacturers like HP, Canon, Epson, etc all have service contracts with consumable supplies. But for home use, it all comes down to affordability. Business model laser printer may cost thousands of dollars and get used to print thousands of pages/week. Spending $100 for an OEM toner vs $20 aftermarket toner may not be a huge saving if the aftermarket toner produces low-quality prints and more repair issues. For a home use where only a few pages/week prints and the printer costing only $169, spending $100 on a toner becomes not very economical. I can live with lesser quality prints with $20 toner, and if the printer malfunctions, it is often cheaper to just buy a new printer than to repair it.
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I find that for my low home usage on my all in one that buying an OEM high capacity cartridge occasionally is not a large expense amortized over the number of pages printed.

    We found ink jet cartridges dried out too quickly for our use. The last HP inkjet we bought decided to be out of ink whenever it wanted. HP support was worse than useless so re retired that printer during its warranty period.
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Well, $100 OEM toner vs $20 aftermarket toner, I will live with lower quality print when time comes to replace the original toner. It's not a $30K car. By the time I need to buy a new toner, I bet I can buy a similar or better printer less than the OEM toner would cost. The drum unit on the printer I just bought is rated to be something like 23,000 pages, that will last my life time. Chances are even the included teaser toner came with the printer would probably last years for us.
     
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  8. egg_salad

    egg_salad Active Member

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    No, it has neither WiFi not duplex printing. But I need neither of those. It does have USB (along with Centronics!) so that's all I need.

    Yes, a few years ago I noticed it was choking on large .pdf files, so I added a 32 MB card that I bought on eBay for under $5, shipped.

    I also own a $50 flatbed scanner that lives in a closet and I can drag out when I need to scan or copy.

    None of this is as perfect as buying a new printer, but my actual page count is well under 100/year, so it's not worth spending any money on a better printing solution.
     
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  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    #109 JimboPalmer, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks guys, i'm sold. just gotta do my diligence now :cool:

    i need something that will print a page or two once a month or so. and the occasional return shipping label, which the ink jet struggles with.
     
    #110 bisco, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I've had my Brother color laser printer now for about 5-1/2 years. Replaced each toner twice and have 40-60% left on the ones in the printer. The toners that come in the machine go empty in a hurry but the replacements last a couple years, so I don't mind buying the name brand ones and have never had a singe problem. I've never paid anywhere near $100 for a toner cartridge. This isn't the cheapest to operate laser printer, but it's a fraction of the cost of inkjet and a million times more reliable after over 9,000 pages and a total of five jams, only two of which were inside the machine.
     
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I did look into color laser printers, but there was no All-in-One color laser in the price range I was looking at. Although the color is nice, I can not think of occasion I will ever needing color printing capability at home. They don't print photo quality color. And if I wanted to do photo printing I still have old dye-sub photo printer which produce real photograph quality prints. I also have old Phaser solid ink color printer that is about size of dorm room refrigerator somewhere in the garage.

    The Canon printer I just bought came with toner rated for 1700 pages. High yield toner rated for 4000 pages is $115, but third party toners are $20-$30 range. I found one as low as $12, although the review was so bad I don't think I will try it. If I do dry toner refill it will cost only $7 for basically unlimited pages. Only thing is that the toner does have a smart chip in it, so the low toner error will likely to persist if I use the same toner unit after refiling, but that should not be a big deal.
     
  14. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I recently wore out my Phaser 8550 DX, so if you need two 550 sheet feeders, that makes the printer about 4 feet tall, just let me know.

    I have quite a bit of ink cubes as well.

    I printed weekly Lions Club Bulletins, yearly Community Kitchen Celebrity Waiter Menus, and yearly Theatre Membership Brochures with that, but could not find another even used.

    So now I own www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XDM9FG3
     
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  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Just don't forget that the original cartridges shipped with printers are usually not full-size or completely-filled cartridge. They are usually a partially filled starter cartridges. A 'real' cartridge will last much longer. Ink volumes should be disclosed somewhere.

    This doesn't fully take the sting out of the Gillette give-away-razor-holder-for-almost-free-make-the-money-on-replacement-blades marketing model, but it will help a bit.
     
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  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I didn't know you can add-on more sheet feeders on that unit. Mine is a retired Phaser 850 unit from my work. It must be at least 20 years old, but I got it ~5 years ago? It was still working condition but replaced with a new color laser at work. I got all the supplies that will last a lifetime, but I never bothered connecting it to my home network and it has been just collecting dust in my garage.:(
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, the intro cartridge in the $39 printer lasted ~ 1 year in my house. I would say, that was about a total of 200 pages of BW and color prints or $0.195/page. The OEM extra cap ink are rated to be 300 Pages per Black Cartridge and 300 Pages per Color Cartridge. But that's $54 or $0.09/page just for ink purchased. The third-party ink would cost about $40 for the same capacity or $0.066/page again just for ink purchased. If I was not working from home, the full ink tank would last several years, then that cost may not be much.

    But now due to my work-related prints, I will be doing much more printing at home than usual. I don't really need color printing for my work. The new laser printer I just bought was $169 and came with a toner capable of printing 1700 pages. That's $0.099/page with the cost of printer included. If I go through the intro toner and buy a new OEM toner capable of printing 4000 pages at $100, then the cost will be ($169+$100)/(1700+4000) or $0.047/page with the cost of printer included. If I buy a third party toner at $20, then the cost will be ($169+$20)/(1700+4000) or $0.033/page with the cost of printer included. It will be a saving of ~60% compared to keeping the inkjet and buying OEM ink cartridge.
     
  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Amusingly, the picture in the Print Driver changes when you add options, so the Printer always looks like it really is. The trays wouldn't interchange between a 8550 and an 850. (unless you misremembered and it is a 8500)

    [​IMG]
    It had a hard disk, half a gig of RAM and 4 feed trays so I could load legal, letter, card stock, and specialty paper. And it smelled like melted crayons, one of every parent's 'fear smells'.
     
  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Amazing! It would be the size of a dorm microfridge now! It is 850 series from the label on the front, but I am not sure of the model number. In any case, I would have absolutely no need for extra 550 paper trays. My need has been 0 paper since I acquired the printer 5 years ago. lol
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I finally got around to replacing my Phaser 750 that I bought used 16 years ago or so. The 750 used a traditional laser engine, not the wax cubes. Like others, I had finally decided on a laser because I was a very sporadic printing user: long periods of not wanting to print anything at all, but then I would have a project and want it to come out nice, and inkjet cartridges were always dried out.

    I did find that the laser option wasn't a panacea for infrequent use. Sure, the toner didn't dry out. But the 750's fuser was kept slick by a roll of oil-impregnated paper that would index a few clicks along after every page printed, and that stuff would dry out. And it turns out there's a shelf life for the photosensitive coating on the OPC belts or drums too. "They" say a couple years, and I was definitely getting decent quality for way longer than that, but definitely not for sixteen.

    More vexing were some paper path and sensor issues late in life. A friend had a nearly-identical model (the 740) that started jamming on paper-pick, and that was how I learned about "damping grease", a specialized grease type for slowing down motion. There was a roller with a solenoid clutch and a spring involved that was supposed to make exactly one turn each activation of the clutch, but as the factory damping grease dried out, the spring tension would make it spin too fast in the second half of the turn, and overshoot the stop before the clutch could reset.

    Damping grease turns out to be expensive and hard to buy in small amounts, but camera shops use it (it's what makes the focus rings on good lenses feel nice), and the local camera guy squirted a little wodge onto a card for me to take home.

    Given that, it was an easy repair, only the 740 and 750 are built like a brick ... house, and while all the normal consumables are easy to pop in and out, getting to things like roller drives and clutches would be like an hour and fifty Phillips screws to deal with.

    My 750 eventually started with phantom jamming issues; I suspected one of the paper path sensors making it think it had jammed when it hadn't (which of course would make it stop in mid-print, and then be jammed for real). Because access was so time-consuming, I just never got to the bottom of it. It eventually got pretty exasperating.

    So I've replaced it with one of Oki's LED printers (everything the same as a laser printer, only the image is written on the OPC drums by one stationary LED head for each color, rather than a laser and a spinny mirror). It is nicely built, seems to have pretty convenient access for nearly everything, and weighs a whole lot less than the 750.

    It can also print color at the same speed as mono. The 750 had a single OPC belt that, for color, would have to go around four times to pick up each color in turn, and then feed one paper sheet, so color printing took four times as long. The Oki has a separate small OPC drum under each toner cartridge, there's a separate LED head to put the image on each drum, and the image data just gets sent to the four heads with the right delays so that as one sheet makes its way under the four drums, the four color images perfectly line up.

    Pretty nifty control trick, that.

    I'm a little leery of the down-the-road costs of having four, count 'em, four little OPC drums in there, but at least they are available separately. They are labeled C, M, Y, K but I'm not sure there's really any difference other than the labels and maybe some locating nibs. If those can be filed down, maybe I can just keep one around as a spare and be able to use it in whatever position needs replacement first.

    How they pull off the trick of getting four perfectly aligned images onto one moving paper target passing under four different drums is neat. What's under the paper is a continuous transfer belt, and at the far end of the belt there's an I-kid-you-not video camera pointed at it, and any time the printer has been sleeping for a while or had the drums disturbed, while it is warming up, without pulling a paper sheet, it will print test patterns from all four drums right onto the belt, and at the end, the video camera reads them, and the firmware calculates the right delays in sending the four images to correct for any misalignment.

    That also lets it auto-adjust the toner density as the cartridges get old and used up. No more of the fun procedure with the 750 of printing calibration pages, comparing them to the specially-printed swatches in the back of the hardcopy manual, and tweaking density settings on the front panel until they looked right. The Oki just reads the test-pattern densities right off the belt and calibrates itself.

    What'll they think of next?