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Internet Poll: Prius vs Jetta

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by bwilson4web, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    NO doubt... first we have the upfront cost of the vehicle and then a lifetime of paying 30% more to travel with lower mpg and higher fuel considered... and whats that?.... less amenities too.... sorry charlie.
    We drive too much here..... maybe that will work for folks who don't need to drive.
     
  2. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    News on the Portland to Portland Green Test Drive: Reader Survey - The Results Are In.

    Reader Survey - The Results Are In.


    Thanks to the 756 visitors to the site who participated in our "reader survey" poll. According to the results, 61% of you (463) prefer the Prius Hybrid over the Clean Burning TDI. Of course, the results of the poll are completely SUBjective, and that's okay!

    First off, the whole point of this journey is to promote the idea that BOTH the Prius and TDI represent viable fuel efficient "green" alternatives to current non-hybrid gasoline powered vehicles (fuel efficient cars are less than 6% of the total vehicles out there today). And it's great to have choices, depending on whether you do mostly city driving where the Prius excels, or (like me) mostly highway driving where the benefits of clean burning diesel really shine.

    But fuel efficiency is only ONE element of the driving experience, creature comforts, performance (read power), styling and what I term "fun to drive-ness" are also important.

    I'd love to hear from anyone that voted WHY they liked one vehicle more than the other, and especially hear from anyone that has owned or spent any time behind the wheel of BOTH alternatives.

    Lastly, we'll be posting the GREEN HUMAN TEAM observations and comments on the drive very shortly.
     
  3. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    I want to know how well the TDI fared against the Prius.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There is no one "why" but a multitude of reasons. Perhaps the biggest one is I have a Prius sitting on my driveway. But I suspect you meant a different question, "Why did you buy a Prius instead of a Jetta TDI?"

    Here the answer is I work and spend most of my weekly driving commuting between home and work:
    [​IMG]
    To achieve efficiency with a Jetta TDI, I would have to take a longer distance route using the high speed roads and skipping the slower, short cuts. It is in city driving that the Prius excels.

    One other aspect of the Prius is having mph vs mpg data to predict what it will cost on any given trip:
    [​IMG]

    I have no similar information for the Jetta TDI and without it, all I have are the EPA numbers and they don't look good:
    29 City / 40 Hwy / 33 Combined
    NOTE: 17 vehicles reported 40.4 MPG suggesting Hwy driving
    Now you might notice that if I keep my speed at 65 mph, I get over 50 MPG and even 70 mph, 49 MPG is just under. These are also the speed ranges of many cross-country truckers who have also learned how to conserve fuel. But last year, I only did three cross country trips and 65-70 mph was my cruise control set speed the whole way:

    • 750 miles - each way, HSV to DC
    • 750 miles - each way, HSV to Madison WI
    • 375 miles - each way, HSV to Georgetown KY
    So you see, I really don't spend a whole lot of time at speed ranges where the Jetta TDI provides any advantage. BTW, I just use my cruise control, set and forget about it except for hills with truck climbing lanes ... I use them to go up at 55 mph and go like a bat out'ta bad place.

    BTW, did I mention regular gas is less expensive than diesel?

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. bredekamp

    bredekamp Member

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    The Golf Mark 1 was released in 1974 and discontinued in 1983. The Golf 1 was called the Rabbit in the USA and Canada and was in fact made in a diesel version. Did yours also have that brownish vinyl interior that would burn your bum if it was in the sun too long?

    I think the SA versions radiator was just too small to deal with our very hot weather. I don't remember any leaking radiators, just a lot of overheating. I think it was mostly thermostat related. All I know was that her 1978 was always boiling or having a flat battery. Her 1982, with the wider tail lights, was much more reliable.
     
  6. bredekamp

    bredekamp Member

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    Yes, I could buy a Jetta TDI.Here's why I didn't:

    - our "low sulphur" diesel is still 50ppm
    - turbo units have a nasty habit of failing if you don't baby them
    - diesel price here is very volatile, gas price is regulated by government
    - I guess I'm still biased in thinking diesel is a dirty fuel
    - I don't agree with bio-diesel and will never support it. Food goes into tummys not gas tanks
    -The Prius is way cooler
    -I just wanted a hybrid, so sue me.
     
  7. The Tramp

    The Tramp Italian Prius Expert

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    Hey bob, you are barking up the wrong tree: I own a Prius. :p Best of all, I do come from a diesel. :D
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It's been 3 full weeks since the drive ended.

    Still no MPG results posted.

    Interesting, eh?

    .
     
  9. GreenHuman

    GreenHuman New Member

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    Hello. GreenHuman here. Your member 'bwilson4web' visited our site, commented on our thread and was kind enough to also invite me over here so thank you for the invitation. Thank you, lots of you responded to our poll but I'm a bit surprised that not many of you care to comment on WHY you like the Prius better. I would hope that to have voted, you would have actually driven both vehicles! me and my team did, alternately, for almost 8,000 miles and we're about to release our findings and mileage stats (I think you might be surprised) and some pretty strong feelings about what we like/dislike about both vehicles and why - but I had hoped to hear from you all first. Thanks again for inviting us over and look forward to the dialogue and feel free to visit us at greenhuman.net.
     
  10. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Greenhuman, I hear your point, but maybe the way I shop is not right or wrong, but its just the way I shop.
    When I hear an ad or go into a store looking for a product... be it a home appliance, lawn equipment, or the car I want to drive, when something turns me off before I even get to the store, I don't go looking for it.

    If I find out a refrigerator I'm looking for is not "frost free" or has one of those little compressors that run hot as a firecracker, I look no further and go to the next. If I 'm looking at lawn equipment, I look first at what type of engine it has... everything else revolves around whether it will run reliably over the years, regardless of the cool amenities and discounts offered.

    When I'm looking for a car, I also look at the engine before I get all caught up in what kind of stereo, suspension and amenities it has.
    In this case the jetta runs on diesel... this is my major turn off. Next is that its a jetta vs. toyota.
    I'm certainly not an expert but I've talked to others who were and they don't favor even working on them because of their unpredictable failure rates.

    Other than maintenance, I wouldn't want to work on a Prius either because its too technically intimidating, but at least the name it carries "Toyota" gives me the warm and fuzzy to know that I can trust it will run a very long time and when it fails, there will be many qualified mechanics who will be ready and willing to work on it.

    The jetta is the wrong package before I even walk in the door.

    True, it may be interesting to see how it feels, handles, and what its mpg is, but we are not comparing against Toyota's lowest end vehicle but rather a prius which is not too shabby and is loaded with amenities not offered on much nicer luxury cars.

    I know its not right to be bias as it can lead to misinformation, but I'm not trilled at the prospect of paying dearly for Gas over the lifetime of the vehicle.
    I hate the loud obnoxious noise of most diesels as it makes them sound like the engine is about to blow apart and its not pleasing to even be in the car next to it and try to carry on a conversation or listen to your tunes as it idles.
    The prius is totally silent when still... thats hard to beat!

    Maybe a better question directed to jetta lovers might be "what does it offer that would entice me to even try it for a serious long term vehicle investment compared to a prius?"

    After having driven both extensively yourself, if you started fresh and had neither but had to chose and go buy one or the other out of your own pocket money.... which one do you honestly say is the best investment and joy to drive?
    Hopefully, you don't just like going for the underdog.... that could be an expensive hobby both in love and in life!

    Unless its nearly free, driving a car has to be much more than merely making a statement about being green.
    If its honestly more of a thrill and means more for you to drive the jetta, then you should but I challenge you to be able to convince others in a much stronger way than asking them to tell them why they like the prius?

    Can you answer the same question?
    Why would you prefer the jetta over the prius?
     
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's subjective. What about the objective aspects?

    The emission rating of "clean" diesel is only T2B5. That's quite a difference from the SULEV and PZEV ratings that we consider clean. In fact, it's even dirtier than the typical non-hybrid gas vehicle.

    And of course, the measure of MPG isn't rocket-science. It only took us a few minutes to determine the results of the 1,200 mile road-rally back in 2002, where a TDI participated along with 3 hybrids. Why such a huge delay?

    Finally, a cross-country trip doesn't represent typical driving doesn't tell much. Most people don't drive almost exclusively highway like that. Most people won't be buying that older model Prius either... which isn't as efficient on the highway as the new one.
    .
     
  12. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    1) You didn't ask for people to vote who only drove both vehicles.
    2) Your population voting would have been drastically reduced had you only wanted people who satisfied #1 voting.
    3) You "presented" video on your site to assist voters who didn't qualify for #1 to vote.

    Just wanted to point this out to you.
     
  13. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    Hi all, I own both vehicles. I like them both. Which one is better. It depends on which one I am driving at the time. No, really, I like both vehicles and enjoy driving them both.
     
  14. GreenHuman

    GreenHuman New Member

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    @windstrings. Thanks for your comments. I love that people are so passionate about their Prius’s and especially evangelical about furthering the “green†segment of the POV industry. What I don’t get is the close minded “don’t confuse me with the facts I’ve already made up my mind†defensive, even kind of snarky attitude that seems to be in this room and that’s what I’m trying to understand. Not to cross too far over into religion, it’s like a religious group that says “my way is the ONLY way to heaven†to which I have to remind them that there a whole lot of Hindus and Buddists out there that might disagree.

    Hybrids and Diesel co-exist (quite peacefully I hear) over in Europe and I believe the US is lagging in their acceptance of this (alternative) technology. Your comments about diesels being noisy and smelly do not consider the current generation of diesel, nor are your comments about diesel fuel being more expensive (it’s actually cheaper than regular here in Seattle now) or diesel engines being less reliable than gasoline ones (!?). And then there’s the emerging biodiesel factor, which makes diesels effectively carbon neutral. All good stuff.

    All of this makes is sound like I’m coming down in favor of the Jetta, I actually think both vehicles are wonderful steps to a “greener†transportation grid (especially the next generation of VW diesel with WILL be in the lower tier bin) and like “bestmapman†truly do like them both.

    It’s just hard to have a conversation with someone who is so close minded and fixed on a position based on outdated information. I wish you, like me, had actually spent time behind the wheel of both cars and THEN had an opinion. That being said, I do appreciate the dialogue, at least it’s a start.
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    First, I chose Prius because it lowers emission AND reduce fuel consumption. Diesel only does one (reduce fuel consumption) and it only does it on the highway but not in the city. I don't mean to state it as negative but as positive because it is better than the non-hybrid gas car in fuel consumption. However, non-hybrd gasoline cars pollute less than modern diesels.

    Second, I chose Prius for the reliability. Due to the simplification of the mechanical moving parts in the Hybrid Synergy Drive, it is very reliable. So is the maintenance-free HV battery pack. It is warranted for 10 years / 150,000 miles.

    TDI has unreliable tradition step gear transmission and the turbo charger to complicate mechanically with more moving parts. Is Diesel engine covered under 10 years / 150,000 miles warranty? Don't give me the track record (Diesel tractor trailers have gone 1 million miles or Toyota are very reliable, etc..). I am looking for the warranty in a written document. On top of that, TDI has the expensive after-treatment exhaust that also require additional maintenance.

    Third, I chose Prius for ownership experience. Sure, driving experience makes a difference but it is highly subjective because different people drives differently. Some like to corner hard while some like the smooth and gentle acceleration and enjoy high MPG. However, ownership experience is the same for everyone. How much does it cost (or easy) to maintain, insure, etc... It is a joy to own a Prius since it is so trouble-free.
     
  16. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    greenhuman.. sorry I seem too bias... I think If I had never driven a Prius I would be more open, but I don't see anything that really entices me to try and all I see is negatives... like the high diesel gas prices.

    I would probably like the car if I drove it, but I almost don't want to like it because of the higher price to operate it.... it really needs to give me a good excuse to cross the line.
     
  17. GreenHuman

    GreenHuman New Member

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    Your statement above is incorrect on two counts.

    GAS VS DIESEL COST
    According to the website gasbuddy.com the cheapest regular gas in Seattle last 36 hours = $2.23 at 711 at 101 NE 50th St & 1st Ave NE Seattle. Cheapest price for DIESEL = $2.05 at the Fred Meyer at 8710 Evergreen Way near Holly. That would put diesel CHEAPER than low test regular fuel (and it's expected to go even lower in the near to mid future - gas in back on the way UP sorry to say).

    HIGHER PRICE TO OPERATE?
    From cars.com
    Lowest available price of an 09 TDI within 30 miles of my zip = $24,269.00
    Lowest avaiable price of an 09 Prius withing 30 miles of my zip =
    $26,863.00
    These are both dealer asking prices, not actually negotiated deals.
    THAT WOULD PUT THE JETTA TDI AT A LOWER COST BY ALMOST $2,500.

    So, TODAY in SEATTLE, the Jetta TDI is CHEAPER to purchase AND LESS to operate assuming identical fuel mileage (we're back to that argument and the truth is depends where and how you drive).

    As far as maintenance comparison, JETTA has 3 years, 30,000 mile "carefree" maintenance. The Pirus of course has an excellence reliability as well no question there.

    Just wanted to set the record straight on this one. Thanks again for your comments.
     
  18. lys

    lys AerodynamicMac

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    Since I live in EU, and I've owned some diesels before the Prius, I'd like to comment:

    Modern turbo-diesel cars relay on very critical fuel inyection systems, with micrometric inyectors prone to failure, given the more "dirt" quality of gas-oil.

    Actually, my former Renault Megane 1.5 dci, a very state of the art diesel engine, a true econocar with a 55 MPG easy to get, resulted in a nice full faillure of the whole inyection system, a 3,000 euro (4,000$) repair at the 120,000 km mark. Dirt gas-oil+tight inyectors= expensive in the long run.

    I sold it at 140,000 km and went for the Prius because I wanted a gas car, no more diesel, but energy efficient.

    Just now my wife insist to drive her Corolla diesel, really cheap too (>50 MPG), but only 50,000 km yet. I expect to convince her for a 3G Prius.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    What about the sound?

    Shall I mention what I hear every time my neighbor with her Jetta TDI drives by?

    That clatter of the diesel engine really stands out. No other vehicle in the area is that noticeable. And of course, the dead silence of electric motor in Prius is the opposite extreme.
    .
     
  20. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Well they must be punishing the truck drivers here in texas because its substantially higher for diesel.

    But even if it was equal, it really needs to be much cheaper.. otherwise all things are not equal.

    I may be completely wrong since I haven't sat in a jetta... but you must admit the reputation of the prius far exceeds anything in the jetta family.

    that being said... I need the jetta to be "quite" a bit cheaper to convince me to even chance it..... without being something like half price, I've never been one to go for bargain buys unless the quality is there.

    When I buy something, I first have to ask myself if I would want it if price wasn't an issue... if the answer is still no, then there's no use in looking.

    If prius owners were doing it for the price, they would be fools... there are many more elements that go into the satisfaction, pride, and security of owning a certain vehicle.