Internet Poll: Prius vs Jetta

I'll comment on why I like Prius:

1. An incredibly sophisticated drivetrain for a vehicle whose MSRP starts at $22K. There's an amazing interaction between the gasoline engine and the two electric motors, orchestrated by the hybrid vehicle ECU.
2. I'm not sure whether your Prius vehicle had the Smart Entry / Smart Start system or not. One of your videos made fun of the Prius fob and the procedure required to start the car. The Smart system is a highly useful and practical feature. The fob can remain in your pocket (or purse, as the case may be) at all times and the car can be started without any delay, just depress the brake pedal and press the POWER button. All cars should have such systems installed. I suspect that German cars that are popularly priced lack this system because German vehicle electronics are not known for achieving world-class quality levels.
3. Prius has many ECUs that work together harmoniously. Some of them include: engine, hybrid vehicle, traction battery, power steering, transmission control, skid control, immobilization, smart, body, combination meter, etc.
4. The hatchback body style makes Prius a very practical family vehicle
5. Energy displays encourage fuel-efficient driving
6. World-class build quality, this is not easy to achieve considering #1 and #3 above.
7. Highest rated mpg for a gasoline-powered automobile

I've owned two VWs, an 1976 Dasher (my first new car upon completion of graduate school) and an 1999 New Beetle GLS. Vehicle handling in both cases was quite good. Drivetrains were noisy. Unfortunately, the build quality of both vehicles was less than world-class. This prior experience doesn't move me to seriously consider another VW for purchase.

If VW wants to target Prius owners to consider owning a Jetta TDI, I suggest that it should offer some incentive to encourage those owners to take a test drive. For example, from time to time I receive mailers offering a $50 Target gift card (or some other similarly valued incentive) to show up at a local dealer and take a test drive. A couple of times I've been offered a test drive vehicle to be kept overnight.

 

Those particular stations must be aberrations. Per AAA Fuel Gauge Report, right now, in the Seattle-Bellevue-Everett area, the avg. price of regular unleaded is 2.211 vs. 2.385 for diesel. Per AAA Fuel Gauge Report, nationally, it's $2.009 for unleaded vs. 2.202 for diesel. If you look, the diesel premium's been there yesterday, a week ago, a month ago and a year ago.

That 09 Prius price sounds HORRIBLE. On February 26th, I received an email from my dealer (Toyota Sunnyvale) openly advertising:
2009 Toyota Prius
Package 2
MSRP: $24,469
Factory Rebate: $1,000
Toyota Sunnyvale Discount: $1,581
Toyota Sunnyvale's Very Best Price: $21,888

I guess you didn't look too hard in your own area. A quick search at http://nwautos.nwsource.com/autos/search/results.php?cond[n]=1;makes[0]=Toyota;models[0]=Prius;curSort=price+desc;total=53;page=3 turned up an advertised at Magic Toyota in Edmonds for $23,383. The cheapest 09 Jetta TDI I found was at http://nwautos.nwsource.com/autos/search/results.php?cond[n]=1;makes[0]=Volkswagen;models[0]=Jetta;curSort=price+desc;total=101;page=3 for $23,429.

 

Bullpucky. Seattlegasprices.com (a branch of gasbuddy) lists gas as $1.96 at Covington Costco.

Your Fred Meyer, selling diesel at $2.05, sells gas at .... $2.04!

The AVERAGE Seattle gas price for 3/26 is $2.21, less than your claimed LOWEST. My local Costco ($2.05) and Safeway ($2.19), neither low price leaders for their chains, also have gas for lower than your claimed "lowest". Diesel at Safeway is $0.20 higher than gas, Costco doesn't sell diesel.

-- Dean, Seattle area resident.
=========
PS. Seattlegasprices (a subsidiary of gasbuddy) lists only one diesel price of $2.05. The second-lowest price is $2.17, with many stations at or near to this price. There are over 100 listings of gas at $2.16 or lower.

Therefore the $2.05 diesel is an abberation, and fairly likely to be a contributor error.

 

More unadulterated bullpucky. On Edmunds.com, EVERY Toyota dealer listed within 50 miles of Seattle offers Priuses below that, half of them offer prices far below that.

Edmunds TMV today, for Seattle's zip code --
Prius, starting at $21,667 (after $500 rebate)
Jetta TDI, starting at $22,970 (no rebate available).

-- Dean, Seattle area resident.

 

Greenhuman, Credibility is extremely important in any argument or when challenging a mainstay proven product like the prius.
Even if it hurts, its important you keep facts within reason to the point that they can't be shot down in a moment.

There are always unknown variables to any purchase, without that credibility and trust customers won't walk away from a trusted product.

In other words, the challenge product has to be above and beyond in quality and or price to compete with a trusted proven product.

Its true, thats why its so hard to produce a new product sometimes unless you have a mindblower. Thats also the reason so many good products turn into monopolies.

I think there is enough untapped technology out there that it shouldn't be hard to produce a mindblower..... like I said once before, I really don't think that will happen with diesel.... Diesels are loud and stinky... or at least thats the reputation they have earned so far.

 

Volkswagen's TDI engine have a bad reputation of broken turbos at roughly 60.000 miles. I can post you an article but it's in Italian.

Or I can post you a link of someone that changes his turbo, in guarantee, three times. He's desperate and is selling his TDI. You want it? You can have it.

Live in a city foll of diesel cars and you too will think they smell. They do smell, smell at your and you will notice the difference Vs the Prius.

As for the noise...
This is the data for the VW
This is the data for the Prius

As you can see, apart that the Prius is cleanER, is that the tractor makes twice as much noise than the quietER Prius.

We chose the best, why degrade?

 

That's a design feature to protect blind pedestrians

 

Great follow up guys. I got my comparison prices from the exact same website within 10 seconds of each other. I did the same with the vehicle prices on cars.com asked the question the exact same way and I did note they were dealer asking prices, not negotiated prices. I think the point stands that the two vehicles are priced "about the same" and the two types of fuels cost "about the same" not withstanding daily fluctuations and special deals. The follow up here seems to support that. Fair?

 

Thats fair, but ones an apple and ones an orange... which do you prefer for your money will be the magic question only the market will answer.

Just knowing human nature, we hate to try new things unless there is little to lose.... especially if we are happy with what we have.

 

10 seconds is irrelevant, as there were plenty of lower gas prices at the time. I suspect that you may have quoted the bottom 'yellow' price, not the top 'green price, on this page, which would completely misrepresent Seattle's gas price situation: Seattle Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Washington

But this afternoon I did personally verify that the $2.05 diesel price at that Everett Fred Meyer is accurate. And saw no other diesel prices coming even close to it.

One other station had diesel and 87-gas at the same price ($2.39). All others had diesel priced 'similar' to midgrade gas.

I did enough Prius window shopping around Seattle last month to personally know that your quoted Prius price was a farce. For my desired 2009 package if buying now (neither the cheapest nor most expensive), none of the 5 dealerships visited had an asking price anywhere near that high.

Nice backpedaling.

I'm looking both at a hybrid to replace an ancient Honda, and a diesel to replace a less old Subaru. The leader for the first slot is a 3G Prius, and is likely to be acquired this spring. I'll look at the Jetta TDI SportWagen for the other slot, but that choice can be held off several years waiting for Subaru to bring its diesels ashore. I wish you had spent more of your time talking up the TDI, and less time bashing Prius. The hypermilers on cleanmpg had talked up the TDI quite well, despite handily beating its cross-country fuel economy with a Civic Hybrid. Your series only detracted from that.

 

Ok. What about maintenance?

Insurance?

Taxes?

 

How much will it cost do maintenance after 3 years / 30k miles? What if I run on bio-Diesel? Will the "carefree" maintenance still be honored?

 

@Bob. Using the links you provided, the base 09 Prius is $22,720 and the base 09 TDI is $22,270. What you did in your analysis was to add an automatic transmission AS AN OPTION that added over $1,100 to the TDI.

I agree with your earlier comment that to be truly fair, you would have to create a side by side menu that had similar features. The problem with that is that manufacturers will "package" these features so that the sum of the parts is less than the whole so even doing it that way is going to cause some inequality. Hey, floor mats, a security system, a refrigerated glove box to keep my energy drink cold and actual 115 volt outlet that I can plug a laptop into might be important to one person, an automatic transmission might be important to someone else, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE OPTIONS.

So, based on the sites YOU selected and using the BASE lowest cost model, I stand by the statement that the cars are comparably priced.

Thanks for comments as to why you like the Prius. I doubt I'm going to find anyone in the room that doesn't like their Prius but if there is one thing you could change about it, what would it be?

 

Nope, see my earlier post.

Diesel FAQs - Energy Information Administration also mentions that "Since September 2004, diesel prices have been higher than regular gasoline prices almost continuously". You can see the raw historical data at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm.

Personally, I had not really been paying any attention to diesel prices until maybe 2 years ago (esp. since I don't own and never have owned a diesel vehicle) but since I started actively looking, I've ALWAYS seen diesel higher.

When we were in the $4/gallon range for regular in the SF Bay Area (when gas prices were at the peak), I ALWAYS saw diesel costing even more than premium unleaded. You can see some reflection of that in the year ago price at AAA Fuel Gauge Report ($3.665 for regular, $3.955 for premium, $4.211 for diesel). It's also relected in the highest average recorded price:
Regular Unl. $4.588 6/25/2008
Dsl. $5.147 7/17/2008

 

oh and here's the link to the gas site I used, this link pulls up a tab you can toggle between the differnt fuels. Seattle Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Washington

At this moment diesel is .06 higher than regular but it was different yesterday or whenever I posted. So I also stand by my statement that the prices are "close" we got here because one of the big "objections" cited in an earlier post was the "high price of diesel". .06 seems in the range of "close" to me, that is subjective and again it's predicted to go the other here over the next few months and actually be lower that gas, but that hasn't happened yet. Just don't want anyone to think that I am trying to pick and choose, I want to maintain an honest conversation and truly appreciate the time you've taken to post comments, good and bad. I wish all this was over at the greenhuman site, I think people visiting there would appreciate it too, at least I hope they would. If you're all okay with it, I'll export some of this over there and you can comment there too if you like.

 

i can tell you that

get a plugin version

and a 2 seater would be nice. ( with better MPG;s of course )

 

You said fair is fair?
The prius IS automatic, I bought it because it IS automatic. To be fair, it has to be compared with an AUTOMATIC Jetta.

And I was told that in USA automatic transmissions are more popular.

Bigger batteries.