Internet Poll: Prius vs Jetta

The Prius doesn't have an alternator? Hmm, learn something new every day. Not something I'm overly concerned about, since alternators are bound to go on many non-hybrids. Makes one think about the longevity of the generators on the Prii. And yes, timing belts suck, but I can get to 300k in timing belts before they cost the same as the Prius battery. Which, yes, I know, may never go.

The one thing that I've noticed is that while it's easy to identify high milage systematic issues on the TDI, there's not so much info on the Prius yet. I was very interested to find that the only 200000 mile vehicle in the 200000 mile thread here wasn't even a Prius. The systematic isses may or may not come, but you still don't know. There are very clear guidelines for things to change at 200k, 300k, etc on a TDI, but they've also been around for an extra 5 yrs (gen IV vs. HSD).

I've re-read my previous post, and I think it may have come across a little more negative than I had intended...or at least more pro-TDI. Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but there are a lot of good things about the Prius, too...you all know them though, obviously.

Like I said, I really think the strength of the Prius is that you get all of this without really having to go out of your way. Same gas, same oil, no real tricks. That makes this a much better suited car for the masses. The fact that these statements can be made along with the type of milage that it delivers is really a testament to Toyota engineering, and it's why the car is so acclaimed.

The other thing is that Toyota did a very good job of training it's techs on the (major) differences with this vehicle. With the TDI, the number of horror stories (at least in the US) of dealers doing the wrong thing to an otherwise fine car are simply alarming. I know there are a few systematics here (overfilling the oil, etc) but it's just not close. The Prius is a flagship vehicle for Toyota, and it's treated as such. The US TDI is really a VW afterthought, at least until the 09, but we'll see how that plays out.

Finally...and this will speak to the cars and to the age too...there's a notable tone difference here as compared to TDIclub. The percentage of happy posts (as opposed to "I have a problem" posts) is much higher here. I think that's indicative of the items I've suggested above. It may skew as the HSDs age, but probably not by that much. There are just a lot more things someone can inadvertently do to a diesel. The folks who've taken the time to learn the differences succeed greatly, ones who ignore the differences have issues...but the Prius is much more user friendly.

Funny (and unrelated, actually) but I still just had someone ask me on Saturday where I plugged the Prius in.

~ J

 

WOW!! what a thread.

ok, the reason i have a Prius: its a great step towards a solution and because it burns gas, its not a solution in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER!! PERIOD just a move to where i want to be. (my other car a BEV Zenn, is where i want to be, just not WHAT i want to be!!)

so whether it gets 50 mpg or 150 mpg, it does not matter, therefore something that uses only gas it not an option for me. so even if the Jetta got 100 mpg, its nothing i would be interested in.

But the Prius does advance battery technology in a round-about way. having real life data to analyze will help battery technology and most importantly, battery management technology to advance to where we will use no gas. Toyota is a smart but very deliberate company. in many ways, i wish they would take more chances, but they are the most successful car company in the world because of their deliberate approach.

so the next obvious step, is plug in hybrids which will be here next year, but only after Toyota's well known extensive testing and engineering work that usually produces a product that is "very near" market ready when its introduced (for the most part, i have not seen "market ready" products from any company in nearly any field for years. we simply still struggle to master the balance between technical complexities and user friendliness) and that takes time. imho, they are taking too much time, but then again, they probably know better what they are doing than me.

now i can only hope that Toyota will see that everyone is rushing a highway capable EV to market in the next two years and will move up their timetable. to be honest with ya, after all is said and done, i would rather drive a Toyota EV, but at the same time, i will get the first one available that fits my ultimate needs and that looks to be likely available next summer a full two years before Toyota' s planned entrance into the market.

so, as you can see, there is simply no room for VW technology and the mileage results are a non-issue

 

When you speak of an alternator as on a conventional car... no, it does not have one... virtually no belts either!

This will help clear that alternator issue:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/42719-alternator.html

Timing belts were tossed after 2004
WikiAnswers - How often do you change timing belt on Toyota Prius

Another mind blower for some... no belts at all on the 2010!
2010 Prius, no belts at all?? - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

Air conditioner is all electric... as well as power steering... no more binding risking blowing your hoses and straining your pump when you turn the wheel all the way!
http://www.epa.gov/cppd/Presentations/Matsunaga%20electric%20inverter.pdf

All those electric motors wearing out?.... no biggy... no brushes!
Hybrid Synergy Drive | My Prius Blog - Stop worrying about reliability, it`s a Toyota | Toyota Prius Fuel Efficient Car Blog
Transmission is the automatic of the automatic... no shifting!

Many companies put all their energy in trying to make a better mouse trap "something everybody else already has".. but only a few take risks and break the mold and do a new thing! That would require thinking and taking new ideas and actually using them rather than buying them to sit on a shelf!

I can walk up to my car, grab the handle "it immediatly opens sensing the keys in my pocket", Sit down and put my foot on the brake and hit the power button while reaching to put on my seat belt. Put the car in drive or reverse and be moving all in less than 3 seconds!
.... and the engine is not even on yet!

Here is a progression chart John put together, it only covers to 2004.. While other manufacturers "mostly American" were putting a now body on an old car and raising the price, Toyota has been quite busy with the prius and slowly taking the market. Kind of like the Tortoise and the Hare.
Now that the Rabbit has woke up and realized its losing the race, its too late for most to catch up unless Toyota just rolls over and plays dead!
John's Stuff - Toyota Prius History

Once you start studying much about the prius, it starts making other cars seem like model T's!

If you really want to get more confused with the facts, John has compiled an awesome page on the prius where you can drown in information if you like.
John's Stuff - Toyota Prius and more

Greenhuman, you asked why we like our prius... if you read all this, I'm sure you will like it too! Its a marvel in engineering that actually works flawlessly.

Toyota Prius has been ahead of the game for a while now... they just don't flaunt it too much that you would notice unless you dig a little.

They leave the Flaunting up to us!

 

I guess flawless is open to interpretation... I too long for the days of the true hybrid.. Where fossil fuel is either rarely used, or not at all.

I interpret flawless as being something that will start "everytime" and run "everytime" without flaws!... true, its only a machine made by man.. but I've never seen a car before in my life that I could toss the idea of buying an extended warranty and actually getting away with it!

Both of my 100K mile warranties will be up in about another 15K and I haven't used either of them!

As hinted in previous posts, there are tons of places we can go to bring even more innovative improvements.
Even some of the present technology is good to improve upon if its new cutting edge stuff that only recently came out needs fine tuning.
Its much harder to fine tune something that has been tuned and tweaked upon for over half a century and still expect a miracle and a technology revolution.

We need a breach of paradigm. New thought that builds on the present, but yet leaves it in the dust!

There are enough people out there playing with it already.... just go to u-tube and type in hydrogen, or magnetic, or perpetual motion and see what pops up!

Competition is the only thing that fuels new creation. There is no need for competition without a need to fullfil.
It takes daring, engineering genius, vision and money.

Most companies only want to cheat and change the name of someone elses hard work and call it new with a fancy marketing slogan.

All we need is more people taking the lead rather than following... so far, no one has challenged Toyota in any meaningful way. But thats risks and guts and investors won't play without allot of faith in whose playing the game. Too many scam artists.
How long have we seem the hydrogen car that supposed to be out and they keep moving the date back and back and back?

Heres one that is either a scam or will turn the world on its head while others are still playing with diesel.... the date keeps moving back... now its Status: Mid August 2008

Look what AMD did for computer chips?.. they challenged Intel and the both kept raising the bar until we have computers that scream compared to only 5 years ago, let alone 20 years ago. Most cars still use the same old technology of 20 years ago both in engine and transmission with the exception of a few mpg innovations like fuel injection etc.

Why not in alternative fuels and technology?

Too bad it keeps being all about money.

Either someone wants to get it without working for it, or someone already has it and doesn't want to work either.

We need incentive! We need competition... I challenge Volkswagon to do what hasn't been done.

I still fear we are not even close to desperate enough to seriously fulfill the call for alternative energy sources.... we still have far too much oil and we don't want to leave it in the ground and call it worthless no more than we would want to consider Gold worthless and move to another value system.

PC has gone a long way in inspiring the world to think out of the box and launch a call to quit chasing each others tail and rather move forward.... LOL!.. let me think... Isn't that Toyotas slogan?

 

Yes, I know that the Prius, when running in EV, is probably the quietest vehicle on the road. I just wanted to make sure you know that bringing up the sound made by the 2006 in a discussion about the 2009 makes no more sense than comparing the Jetta's driving experience to that of the 2009 Prius, when the 2010 is due out very shortly.

 

Since they brought up non-efficiency aspects of appeal, there was hope that some type of feedback would result from pointing out sound. But instead, nothing.

4 weeks into the waiting for MPG results, nothing for that either.
.

 

BTW sound is easy to compare when it comes to Jetta... especially with them at a VW dealer. All they have to do is make reference to the gas model. Is the diesel the same, quieter, or noisier?
.

 

I am starting to think it may be better for them not releasing than releasing the results.

 

From the outside or from the inside?

The 2009 VW Jetta that is available in USA, is it C.R. or P.D.E.? (this question is for grayhuman )

 

Their Wednesday Video - THEY'VE arrived

Their overall summary / appreciation? The TDI is MORE CONFORTABLE for longer trips. As in, the seating not as comfy for their collective asses.

Last I saw at Auto Shows - bucket seats are easily replaceable.

Idiots.

 

LOL!..... Humm.....it must be pretty good now..... I feel my 2006 is more comfortable for long trips than my Jeep Grand Cherokee for comfort in the seat as well as leg room.

 

The TDI gets the best fuel economy on the open road but most drivers spend time in and around cities. It's good VW finally got the TDI back on the road here in the states.

 

They finally posted some MPG info, but it certainly isn't the detail they eluded to. In fact, it was just this...

They labeled us too...

I set my cruise-control. How that makes my dramatically higher MPG the result of "hypermiling" is beyond a mystery. Why isn't cruise-control real?

When I travel up north, the Prius stuffed with gear and 2 people and bikes hanging out on the back, the result of that highway driving the MPG is low to mid 40's.

My lifetime average of JUST DRIVE IT driving is 47.7 MPG.

The 2010 will obviously do even better.
.

 

Wow!... I've never gotten anywhere near 35mpg... were they pulling a boat?
I'm currently getting 54 - 56mpg because the weather is nice and I"m not running the air-conditioner or heater.. but I drive 70 - 80 mph too.

No hype here.... total honesty....

So if they cheated to get the mpg of the prius so low, does it stand to reason that they also cheated to get the Jetta's so high?

I guess they knew if they had to artificially bring down the numbers of the prius in order to end up with 2.5mpg higher, otherwise no one would believe them or get them for false advertising.

Slander or misrepresentation of another product is a safer bet legally than misrepresenting your own.

 

The worst I got is 34 MPG - by going flat out in no-limit Germany.
http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/47370-top-speed-mileage.html

 

Yes, that would be right if thats what the did with "both" cars, then all things would be fair and equal... but I suspect thats not the case.

The problem with tests like these is you have to have an unbiased overseer to moderate the tests, otherwise it a waste.

All you have to do is run one car wide open with the air full blast and and drive the other moderately and "walla" you have the mpg results you desire!.... your not lying!.. your just not telling all the truth.

If they could confirm they ran both cars at the same time back to back or side by side the same speed, distance, terrain etc, then they have something....but how they got that bad of a mpg on a prius is beyond me!.... Good job!.. I"ve never been able to do it except for the first 500 yards of starting my counter and pulling out under full acceleration!

Many times even after 20 miles or so, I may only have low 40's, but after driving a few hundred miles, by the time my tank is empty, its always climbed to the high 40's to mid 50's.