Iran has Speeded Up Nuclear Projects

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 12:08 PM) [snapback]397245[/snapback]</div>

Believe it or not, Berman, there are ways that a skilled diplomat (AKA not Bush) could gain international approval for actions prior to taking them. I fully believe that, if we take the time, we could gain the support of the UN and all of our allies before taking action.

However, it has to make you wonder - if the world isn't willing to support us stopping Iran from going nuclear, why? Would it be possible, in such a situation, that the US might be wrong about Iran? That they might not be as bad and "evil" as you seem to think?
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there could be - and i believe there is HUGE support for us to prevent iran from going nuclear - much of it behind closed doors - so you will NOT see UN support.

Could the US be wrong? Yes - and here is where your thinking is imho dangerous - i would rather err on the side of not letting a nutjob with a religious/ideological calling get his hand on a nuke. if you are wrong millions die - if i am wrong no one dies - the fact you side on even taking that risk is SICK! They might not be as bad as i think - trust me i am not alone - do you think they are good and nice people? You would trust them with a nuke? i still dont trust NoKo - obviously you do. I would not trust cuba - you would. I would not trust Islamic Jihad - you would - obviously since by your own admission iran supports terror organizations - you would even trust hezbollah with the "bomb" - obviously - by trusting iran with the bomb you trust their JUDGEMENT (i would say lack thereof) of their control of it. Who is NoKo going to give their bomb to? Who is iran going to give their bomb to?

you would recklessly endanger the lives of millions of people - that is why i say your type of thinking is dangerous - you would have trusted hitler in 1935 - think about that....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 27 2007, 11:50 AM) [snapback]397231[/snapback]</div>

Berman is right. A Nuclear Iran is bad for everyone, especially the neighboring countries.

People that oppose the United States interjecting with Iran are either a) unaware of the threats Iran has made B) Don't care c) Waiting for Iran to commit genocide before stepping in.

Dragonfly, I could care less what you or any other Californian liberal hippy thinks about me. Go smoke some dope and beat in a drum circle or whatever you tree huggers do.
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There is only one person on the bb that supports a nuclear armed iran - that by itself speaks volumes!

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

Berman, go back and re-read my posts. Everything I've said in the past half dozen or so posts applies to this one as well.

You are just repeating yourself, refusing to actually read what i'm typing. You continue to put words in my mouth and to accuse me of things i never said i supported.

I never said anything about NoKo. I never said anything about Hitler. I never said anything about trusting Iran, or that i wanted them to have the bomb. In fact, I've said the exact opposite.

Please, ignore all this other fluff you're trying to put into the argument in a vain effort to gain support through doomsday talk.

The real issue here is whether or not the US should take action without international approval and support. Clearly you believe the that US should be a watchdog over the world and have free reign to send the military in wherever something happens that we "don't like". Clearly you feel that the thoughts and opinions of the rest of the world don't matter. Clearly you feel like there is one (maybe two with Israel) supreme countries that everyone else should bow down and submit to.

All hail Bush, emperor of the world!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 27 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]397271[/snapback]</div>

There is only one person on the bb that supports a nuclear armed iran - that by itself speaks volumes!
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Who is that, Berman? I haven't seen anyone on this board come forward and say "i support a nuclear armed Iran". All i've seen is individuals differing on what should be done to prevent Iran from becoming nuclear.

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]397281[/snapback]</div>

Berman, go back and re-read my posts. Everything I've said in the past half dozen or so posts applies to this one as well.

You are just repeating yourself, refusing to actually read what i'm typing. You continue to put words in my mouth and to accuse me of things i never said i supported.

I never said anything about NoKo. I never said anything about Hitler. I never said anything about trusting Iran, or that i wanted them to have the bomb. In fact, I've said the exact opposite.

Please, ignore all this other fluff you're trying to put into the argument in a vain effort to gain support through doomsday talk.

The real issue here is whether or not the US should take action without international approval and support. Clearly you believe the that US should be a watchdog over the world and have free reign to send the military in wherever something happens that we "don't like". Clearly you feel that the thoughts and opinions of the rest of the world don't matter. Clearly you feel like there is one (maybe two with Israel) supreme countries that everyone else should bow down and submit to.

All hail Bush, emperor of the world!
Who is that, Berman? I haven't seen anyone on this board come forward and say "i support a nuclear armed Iran". All i've seen is individuals differing on what should be done to prevent Iran from becoming nuclear.
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by not supporting US action to prevent iran from obtaining nuclear weapons you support iran becoming a nuclear power. we all know the UN will do nothing to prevent them from going nuclear. we all know our allies at least in public will do nothing to prevent it from happening either. so by not supporing unilateral US action to prevent iran from going nuclear - you by default support iran's desire to become a nuclear power. again, tell me how in your opinion if the UN does not prevent them from going nuclear and our allies do not support us is preventing them from going nuclear - how would you prevent them from going nuclear? As you KNOW our allies and the UN will not act on this.

doomsday talk - here you go again - you are assuming iran will behave when you admit they support terror and are a fundamentalist islamic country - what dont you get?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]397281[/snapback]</div>

All hail Bush, emperor of the world!
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you see good and call it evil!

Devil's Advocate · Feb 27, 2007

Eagle, every other post from you seems to say "stop putting words in my mouth".
The other posters aren't putting "words" in your mouth, they are describing outcomes based upon your statements.
You (Eagle) make statements about how you think what is being done in the world (seemingly all by conservatives and republicans) without looking at the consequences of your statements.

If you, Eagle, take eggs, flour, sugar and other assorted flavorings stir it up in a bowl and stick it in the oven you might get a cake; but when you're standing in front of the oven with the bowl full of batter don't tell a person he's wrong for saying you're trying to make a cake!

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Feb 27 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]397297[/snapback]</div>

Eagle, every other post from you seems to say "stop putting words in my mouth".
The other posters aren't putting "words" in your mouth, they are describing outcomes based upon your statements.
You (Eagle) make statements about how you think what is being done in the world (seemingly all by conservatives and republicans) without looking at the consequences of your statements.

If you, Eagle, take eggs, flour, sugar and other assorted flavorings stir it up in a bowl and stick it in the oven you might get a cake; but when you're standing in front of the oven with the bowl full of batter don't tell a person he's wrong for saying you're trying to make a cake!
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he just does not see it - that why i say his point of view is dangerous to us and millions of people throughout the world.

notice how not even one other person has come to his aid here. even the most liberal of democrats will admit that the US must prevent iran from going nuclear. that would represent the greatest possible foreign policy disaster of this your century.

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

Devil's Advocate, you're ignoring the fact that Berman has, repeatedly, said that i would allow hitler to get nukes (despite me saying that i wouldn't) that i want Iran to get nukes (despite me saying that i don't), taht i support a nuclear NoKo (despite me not even saying anything about NoKo prior to that). Those are his assertions about my position that are simply untrue. I never said those things, and yet he is claiming that they are my position. Those are the words put in my mouth.

And Berman, i'm thinking that most people on this board are even more sick of your rhetoric than I am, and have chosen to ignore the topic - take the posts by Mirza and Dragonfly as good examples - they both implied that they disagree with you, while also saying that they really don't care what you say.

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]397353[/snapback]</div>

Devil's Advocate, you're ignoring the fact that Berman has, repeatedly, said that i would allow hitler to get nukes (despite me saying that i wouldn't) that i want Iran to get nukes (despite me saying that i don't), taht i support a nuclear NoKo (despite me not even saying anything about NoKo prior to that). Those are his assertions about my position that are simply untrue. I never said those things, and yet he is claiming that they are my position. Those are the words put in my mouth.

And Berman, i'm thinking that most people on this board are even more sick of your rhetoric than I am, and have chosen to ignore the topic - take the posts by Mirza and Dragonfly as good examples - they both implied that they disagree with you, while also saying that they really don't care what you say.
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if you just answer my question: no UN action no public allie support ---- does the US act alone to prevent iran from going nuclear --- yes or no?

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

Define "act". If it's political and economic pressure and sanctions, then I'm all for it. If it's military offensive action (bombing, invasion, etc), then no, I'm not.

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]397375[/snapback]</div>

Define "act". If it's political and economic pressure and sanctions, then I'm all for it. If it's military offensive action (bombing, invasion, etc), then no, I'm not.
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Military. the other "acts" can be quite worthless as you are very aware.

So indeed you are for allowing iran to obtain nuclear weapons. Thank you for this admission. i really appreciate your honesty. i just wonder why? why after they have multiple times threatened to wipe israel off the map -- why would you allow a country that has threatened that the capacity to do it? that is what i am wondering. all the other countries you listed before that have nukes never threatened to wipe another country off the map - none have the distinct desire to do such - none have the religious beliefs that it is the right thing to do ----- why would even allow that possibilty to exist?

why arm iran with nukes - they support terror groups - you admitted this well known fact - does it worry you that when iran gets a nuke they will lend it to one of their compatriots??? are you worried that weapon migrates somewhere?

again - i think your thoughts on this constitute the GREATEST danger my country faces today and perhaps ever in our history. imagine if they pack this little nuke on an airplane??????????????????

you send shivers up my spine for how you would allow our enemies to arm themselves.

here is evil and you see it as good!

nothing personal here.
you are entitled to your opinions
i just wonder how you get to them and to me how wreckless they are.

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

How is this evil i see as good?

Proco · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 03:04 PM) [snapback]397386[/snapback]</div>

How is this evil i see as good?[/b]
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Because you don't agree with him.

dbermanmd · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 27 2007, 03:04 PM) [snapback]397386[/snapback]</div>

How is this evil i see as good?
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exactly the problem

got to go bro
friend of mine undergoing bone marrow transplant - in urgent need of platelets - i am heading out now to donate.

have a nice evening.

honestly, i still consider you a friend even though we differ on viewpoints here. i would even dontate for you too God forbid you need it.

take care

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Feb 27 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]397394[/snapback]</div>

Because you don't agree with him.
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I think you're right, because he won't even explain himself!

dragonfly · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb, 12:29 PM) [snapback]397406[/snapback]</div>

I think you're right, because he won't even explain himself!
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Well, at least you made a friend!

Devil's Advocate · Feb 27, 2007

Unfortunately Eagle your "words" are hollow becuase the actions you advocate will more than likely lead to the results you decry with your words.

An analogy: if you were standing on the bak of a river and you saw a child drowing and calling for help you would say "I don't want that child to draowned" very noble sentiment, but when a passer by starts chopping down a tree to bridge the river, you decry him for killing the tree! All the while the boy is drowing.

Saying you are against an outcome, Hitler having nukes, and advocating an action that actually prevents that outcome are two very different things.

The Democrat party and Liberals are very good at making statements but very short on action. The Libs got elected in 06, if you believe the Libs, because America wanted us out of Iraq. Well that is easy enough to accomplish, just defund the troops! Now even good ol' Dingy Harry is backing off of any such action.

eagle33199 · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Feb 27 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]397420[/snapback]</div>

Unfortunately Eagle your "words" are hollow becuase the actions you advocate will more than likely lead to the results you decry with your words.

An analogy: if you were standing on the bak of a river and you saw a child drowing and calling for help you would say "I don't want that child to draowned" very noble sentiment, but when a passer by starts chopping down a tree to bridge the river, you decry him for killing the tree! All the while the boy is drowing.

Saying you are against an outcome, Hitler having nukes, and advocating an action that actually prevents that outcome are two very different things.

The Democrat party and Liberals are very good at making statements but very short on action. The Libs got elected in 06, if you believe the Libs, because America wanted us out of Iraq. Well that is easy enough to accomplish, just defund the troops! Now even good ol' Dingy Harry is backing off of any such action.
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nice person opposed to jumping in, swimming out to the child, and bringing him to shore? Sure, I'd be against chopping down a tree that might fall on the kid when a BETTER solution was available.

and check it out - sanctions seem to be having an effect... could it be that we could stop them without having to resort to violence and a bloodbath? Gasp!
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/...html?source=rss

jimmyrose · Feb 27, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 27 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]397315[/snapback]</div>

notice how not even one other person has come to his aid here. [/b]
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Aid? Two of you have kept this thread going almost entirely on your own. Against my better judgement I finally decided to check out this thread.
Dberman throws the bait out and Eagle bites. Repeat. Who needs aid?
The amount of repeated rhetoric is astounding.
Peace.

Mirza · Feb 27, 2007

Eagle doesn't need the aid... your neocon fanatic posts (DA, dumbledore) are not worthy of attention.

(the posts of ignored users show up if they're quoted in a non-ignored user)

rufaro · Mar 2, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Feb 27 2007, 02:25 PM) [snapback]397475[/snapback]</div>

Eagle doesn't need the aid... your neocon fanatic posts (DA, dumbledore) are not worthy of attention.

(the posts of ignored users show up if they're quoted in a non-ignored user)
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'ang about lads and lassies...Dumbledore's a GOOD guy (I was gonna say wise guy, but thought better of it) (let alone that he was resurrected after death...).

The bulk of this thread is so full of hot air it could blow up the balloon of the Wizard of Oz and bring him and all the munchkins, Dorothy, Tin Man, Lion, Scarecrow, the horse of a different color, any witches left standing, flying monkeys, and Toto too to Kansas. Just please, leave Dumbledore out of it--you cut me to the quick! :huh:

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