Iraq=Terry Schiavo...

Really, if you examine history and judge it by our modern standard of "civilized" no middle-eastern society has EVER been civilized. Oh, they have advanced some aspects of civilization, and have had advanced civilization (which does not make one civilized) and until the rise of Islam were scientific innovators, but as far as being civilized, the cultures do not deem the same actions un-civilized that we do.

Beheading is NOT uncivilized to them;
The rape of women is NOT uncivilized as punishment;
The killing of women is NOT uncivilized as punishment;

What the U.S. is attempting in Iraq is one of the most difficult tasks EVER confronted by a nation and the U.S. has to do it ALONE! Thanks a lot world. Of course we'll be there again to save your asses when the muslims rise up and overthrow your countries. BECAUSE THEY WILL!

It's not a matter of respecting their culture. The FUNDAMENTAL GOAL OF ISLAM IS TO SPREAD ISLAM BY ANY MEANS! and kill those who don't surrender! PERIOD.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 19 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]426307[/snapback]</div>

Liberals have a really hard time understanding this..

 

Just because some previously homeless liberal hippy chick from SF pays taxes doesn't mean she "supports" the troops. She hates on America every chance she gets..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 19 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]426307[/snapback]</div>

So, this uncivilized activity has been going on in the Middle East for so long.

Why, only now, are we so concerned about it?

Where was all of this concern for human rights BEFORE 9/11, and where was our willingness to send our people to die in order to "civilize" that area?

Why weren't we over there any earlier, on our own accord, to rectify all of these transgressions?

Why did we have to wait to be attacked for this to become such an issue for us?

Answer: because it's NOT the real issue behind the War.

Nice try, but we've seen this argument before.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 19 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]426236[/snapback]</div>

First off, how do you know you make between 2 and 3 times what he makes? Secondly, your post wreaks of bigotry and hate against people like him, and third, HE is "in more" support of our troops. Money buys a lot, but in the end, when it comes to war, it's what in our hearts that matters, not pocket-books, but thanks for attempting to cheapen the motives of our soldiers, and our nation, who are out there taking bullets for even people like you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 19 2007, 03:22 PM) [snapback]426341[/snapback]</div>

THe simple and selfish answer is: Because now they can and have brought their uncivilized (terrorist) behavior to our doorsteps, and frankly it is disconcerting and pisses us off! (yes it is OK for us to bring it to theirs, sarcastically)

Just like Darfur, for the most part we (or ANY other country in the world) doesn't give a crap until there is some effect on the home front.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 19 2007, 06:15 PM) [snapback]426397[/snapback]</div>

Right; it has more to do with our being "pissed off" than it does with that actual existence of injustices and 'uncivility' and their inherent wrongness. Although these are pretty good excuses to go in shooting.

I know what you're saying. If the proof was more concrete (say, like they snuck up on a Sunday morning and dropped a bunch of bombs on us), I'd probably be right there with you.

But the convoluted reasoning and politics, wildly flawed intelligence and a lack of any real domestic response to the War situation (which would have done wonders to emphasize how serious the situation is), combined with some serious personal doubts as to our willingness and ability to rebuild the place once we're done with it, is giving me reasons to (unfortunately) be tagged by some as an "America hater" (as I'm, of late, inaccurately portrayed).

I'm sure I'll be bashed for being too liberal and sensitive for saying this, but there seem to be some really delicate and deeply seated cultural issues fanning the flames, which our armed forces on their own really aren't trained for, or designed to address.

The situation CAN be untangled and (believe it or not) I would like to see a semblence of order restored. Not necessarily in the Western image, though, but something more culturally appropriate. This is about civility, not about recreating Main Street in the desert.

Also, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing left to lose. And, materially, they've got nothing, while we've got *so much* to lose, and are so tremendously vulnerable in so many ways. I'm simply not sure that force alone will ever be enough to deter those who are willing to give their lives to take ours. Recent events, I think, tend to bear this out.

If all of this comes across as "hatred for America," it's not my intention.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Apr 19 2007, 06:33 PM) [snapback]426413[/snapback]</div>

"We support the troops, really!" ...

Come on liberals.. the hate you try to hide.. it's obvious.

Stop playing with the lives of our troops and FUND THEM without trying to include your Defeatocrat pull-out date.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 19 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]426362[/snapback]</div>

Calm down. I received something in the mail and opened it by accident, okay?

As for money and the War: No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

One more thing: the personal affronts aren't helping your credibility one bit. Keep it up!

Next...?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 19 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]426434[/snapback]</div>

Mostly just ignorance.. sprinkled with hate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 19 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]426437[/snapback]</div>

No big deal.. right.. you ACCIDENTLY committed a felony by reading a juicy piece of mail..

I would expect no less.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 19 2007, 07:10 PM) [snapback]426435[/snapback]</div>

As I said, I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative; y'all are bankrupting the country. Keep it up and there won't be anything for them to come back to!

But, wait...maybe a good way to deter the illegals...

[attachmentid=7561]

As far as the mail thing, it was an accident. Our companies use the same payroll company.

I'm sure you've never opened correspondence which was not intended for you, right?

I answered the question honestly and now you're hassling me for this?

It happened. Now I'm using it as a point for discussion, so that we can all be adults and share our differences with each other, and maybe learn.

I thought that I might actually stir debate and cause us all to think a little. I guess I was wrong. So go ahead, castigate me if that makes you feel better; I'd gladly make that sacrifice if it would make you less violent and aggressive.

 

They aren't coming home till the job is done.. Unless the Defeat-o-crats have somethign to say about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 19 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]426437[/snapback]</div>

You crack me up!

How is it accidental, unless you can't read? :lol: Are you in the habit of blindly opening mail? ...and how does it make you feel, that you make 2 to 3 times as much as he does? Why don't you just be honest, drop the PC, and say you think the guy is an imbecile red neck, and it's peolple like him that need to "disappear". We know you do, your post (and many, many, others) drips with the semi-opaque slime of hidden hate, arrogance, and bigotry. I've actually invented a word for your type of liver and onion flavor of liberalism: "Naliberalizm" Meaning you're sooo far to the left, you've successfully made it around the polical globe to the end of the far right.

As for the credibility, you seem to think "credibility" is something which carries some sort of value. I've nothing to prove to you, or anyone else on this forum, for the most part, all your minds are already made up on most of the hot button topics.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 19 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]426441[/snapback]</div>

The fact they think they support our troops (not their troops) is such a laugh - they dont see the farce themselves - or how everybody laughts at their duplicity.

their leader harry reid yesterday declared DEFEAT in fact. a truly wonderful party who i am sure in their own minds support American troops - about as much as OBL does. I wonder what party OBL and his boy of liberty and freedom loving boys would join or which one they hope wins our elections - republican (pro - America, pro - Troop) or democrat (pro -defeat, pro - retreat, anti - troop).

seriously folks think about it - who would obl vote for - a dem or a repub - honestly. and if you answer that question honestly - does that make you pause and look at yourself and your views?

 

Guys, your bashing of Pinto girl is getting a little out of hand. Give her a break.

As for the whole support our troops thing, troops and war are not the same thing. Believe it or not, someone can be fully supporting of the troops and the great job they've done without supporting a war those same troops were forced into fighting.

Personally, i'm against the war. you know this. And for that, you would decide that i hate our troops and don't support them. In fact, the opposite is true. I send regular care packages to our troops in Iraq. I welcome them home with open arms and cheers.

You, on the other hand, sit back and whine that the Liberals don't support the troops. We passed a war funding bill that not would not only fund the troops, but also ensure that as many of them as possible came home safe and unharmed. It was your conservative leader that decided to veto it because he's not willing to admit he made a mistake.

This war cannot be won. There is no definition of victory that we can achieve.

This war has had only 1 positive outcome - Sadam. other than that, it's been a total failure. We went in and opened the door to terrorists. We created an unstable situation in the country that cannot be stabilized. We created a 3-way civil war that won't be stopped by our military.

And we did it all based on false pretenses.

Yes, i am against the war. Yes, i am against the moron that called for it, the moron that's been running it from day one, the moron who fired his generals (arguably the best and the brightest) because they disagreed with him. Yes, i am against the lies and deceit that were used to get us into the war. And yes, I support the troops. Yes, i think they are doing an amazing job in an impossible situation that i can't even begin to imagine. Yes, i want them to all come home, safe and sound.

What about that can you conservatives not understand?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]426642[/snapback]</div>

we dont agree with you and your buddy harry reid that we lost the war - yet - simple. the yet is the active participation of the democrats and some republicans against us and our war effort, and the effects it is having and will have in the future. Simple. harry reid saying the war is lost yesterday should be impeached for this - it is bordering on treason - on aiding and abetting the enemy - rumor has it he supports the troops too - even when he is denying them the money they need to defend themselves. heck of a way to show your support - imagine if he did not support them?

 

you want to accuse someone of treason for using his constitution right to free speech? for doing the constitutional job of checks and balances? for using the constitutional powers of congress?

The simple fact is that congress did pass a bill that would fund the troops. He's not denying them anything. The president is, because he's not willing to admit he made a mistake.