Iraqies Revolt Against Al Qaeda - Ask for Help!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 06:24 PM) [snapback]454056[/snapback]</div>

No- instead you'll let some E1, for $15,000 a year or whatever they make now, go to Iraq so you don't have to put your nice person on the line. Guess what- there are reservists who make far more than you in their civilian lives, who have homes more expensive than yours, who have had to leave their spouses, kids, businesses, etc. to fight this war, while you stay safe in your whites only community getting your tax break and sacrificing nothing. But you assail all the "liberals" who criticize this war that you are too chickenshit to fight yourself. People like you make me sick.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Army5339 @ Jun 2 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]454086[/snapback]</div>

Here, here. While I am strongly opposed to the war in Iraq and have been since before it started, I have the utmost respect for those who are fighting it. Just as I respect those who oppose the war and refuse to take part in it. But chickenhawks, who urge us to go to war and dare call those who oppose it traitorous, while being too cowardly or too selfish to fight it themselves, are the lowest form of garbage in my book.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 07:26 PM) [snapback]454094[/snapback]</div>

So which is it? You said earlier that you just weren't willing to sacrifice your quality of life.

It's like the drunk guy at the bar, who says that he would kick everyone's butt, if it weren't for <insert lame drunk reason here>. All talk, no game.

You know that you could join and still support your family. Nobody else has to live with your moral integrity failure and cowardly behavior; just you and your family. They probably know you are fake too. Nothing more demeaning than to have your kids view you as a coward.

Even if you were single and had no debt, I am sure you would be able to find a reason you couldn't serve. Maybe a trick knee or something, or an old high school sports injury. I am also positive that you would have weaseled out of the draft in some fashion, all the while bragging about how if they would "give you a chance, you would take it to the enemy".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 07:22 PM) [snapback]454090[/snapback]</div>

Here. Knock yourself out.

• Army: www.armyreserve.army.mil
• Air Force: www.afreserve.com
• Marines: www.marforres.usmc.mil
• Navy: navyreserve.navy.mil

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]454109[/snapback]</div>

But you didn't love the idea of the military enough to look into any of the other military branches or what other roll you could fill. Just the glamor being Top Gun.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]454109[/snapback]</div>

So change your lifestyle. We're at war, remember? Aren't we supposed to make sacrifices during wartime? Oh, wait. You've just stated that you're unwilling to change your lifestyle. Ergo, you're unwilling to make a sacrifice. In other words, you're nothing but hot air.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Army5339 @ Jun 2 2007, 02:49 PM) [snapback]453992[/snapback]</div>

Navy EOD? Is there a lot of call for that on ships or is that one of those jobs where you go out and difuse mines in the ocean?

Regardless, I don't see a specific IZ duty station or length of tour in-country. Did you spend your entire Iraq duty onboard ship in the Persian Gulf? Even so, all of that was prior to April, 2004, which was when the Marines decided to go into Fallujah to 'get some payback' for the killing of those dumbass private security guys and the situation in Iraq got really bad.

If you're really interested, you can google the following:

B/325 MI Bn
BIAP
Camp Cropper
Israel Rivera
Armin Cruz
LTC Steven Jordan
David Travis Friedrich
Gregory A. Belanger

I personally know (knew) all those guys, although I only met Belanger and Jordan a couple of times since they weren't in my unit. You can find details about Belanger(#339) and Friedrich (#362) at the Iraq Casualties website at icasualties.org. Their families probably don't remember things going so well in Iraq in 2003. Feel free to provide the names/numbers of those you knew that are listed on the website.

It's irritating when I see people spouting-off about how 'great' things are in Iraq, but it's really annoying when I see a military type (who was 'over there') doing it but never actually had the experience of being mortared or driving around the streets and highways of Iraq in an unarmored HMMWV. Usually, that means Navy (IZ tour = 7 months), Air Force (IZ tour = 3 months), and/or an officer. If you're in the Army, you now get to spend atleast 15 months in Iraq (recently increased from 12). It's rather like the son of a wealthy, connected politician being in the Air National Guard during Vietnam and being staunchly outspoken and supportive of that effort, as well.

The Iraq experience and perspective of Army/Marine lower-enlisted can be substantially different and the reason I want to know specifics. Hopefully, ROTC will provide you with the (mandatory) opportunity to spend some time in Iraq in the infantry and you'll get to do 15 months of patrolling on the streets to find out how truly good things are 'over there' now.

If you ever actually get to spend some time doing room-to-room building searches in Iraq for booby-traps, don't forget to bring along cans of Silly-String. I hear it's useful to find nearly invisible trip-wires when it's strung across open doorways.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 08:15 AM) [snapback]454313[/snapback]</div>

97B and you couldn't google what Navy EOD is doing in Iraq? Or were you just trying to disparage them?

Anyhow...

Well, two that I know from this year so far are EODC Billiter and EOD2 Hall. They died just this April in Kirkuk. Navy EOD works the streets of Iraq like any other unit. They don't experience casualties on the rate of other units, mostly because of the sheer amount of training, although crap happens from time to time. It's part of the job. All my friends who redeployed believe that things are working out. They certainly don't like it there, but it is not about liking it there. The entire cadre of my ROTC battalion just returned from Iraq within the last 18 months, with the exception of one guy. Mostly combat arms. They all believe it is working. Nobody I know or knew abused human beings, nor would they have allowed it to happen. Neither would I. Your friends did. Congrats. I would have asked for a field execution of those involved.

Since you want to bandy about the names of your fallen or disgraced inhuman comrades like poker chips in a game, I will let you know that active duty infantry is my first choice, even though the competition is very tough for those spots.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Army5339 @ Jun 3 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]454386[/snapback]</div>

I know the Navy and Air Force are in country now because there's no one else left.

If you had bothered to actually read the articles, you'd have noticed that almost everyone involved were MPs, not MI (except Cruz, upon which the entire MP's court case rested and no one in the unit much liked, anyway). Rivera just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anyhow...

I see talk about buddies that were 'redeployed' and 'worked the streets' (like the guys that died in Kirkuk two months ago) and thought 'things worked out' (not my recollection of what people I knew thought) but still don't see specifics about what parts of Iraq you were stationed in 2003.

BTW, how much was your bonus after leaving the Navy and enlisting as an Army ROTC candidate? It must have been pretty healthy considering that the Army's experienced low-to-mid level officers and NCOs are dwindling rapidly. Doesn't seem like they think everything is 'working' in Iraq. From what I hear, the infratructure that we take for granted (24/7 water and electricity) still haven't been provided anywhere in Iraq. Well, except maybe for the Green Zone, of course.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]454405[/snapback]</div>

For the record, every branch of EOD has been in Iraq since the beginning of the war, some of them even before the regular Army went in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]454405[/snapback]</div>

I didn't even address that, nor did you link to any articles. You said you knew them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]454405[/snapback]</div>

As my det wasn't tasked with anything other than with 5th Fleet, we operated no further north than Umm Qasr. Another det went up river, but that was their specific job and tasking. Other dets were strictly tasked with ordnance on land.

Since you say you were based in Camp Cropper, I would squarely place the blame of your crappy experience on the heads of the ate-up leadership chain you had. I would also expect that you would have been a witness at any court-martial to any criminal behavior you would have seen on the part of the troops.

Our current CO is MI, and he was quite proud of the work he had done in Iraq, and can't wait to go back to help out some more.

A good percentage of the cadets are prior Army enlisted, many of them infantry, and they are looking forward to going back to Iraq. They believe it is working. Even the guy with the Purple Heart wants to go back.

The main reason people are currently getting out is the length of the deployment, not "mission failure". If people did continual 15-18 month deployments to Jamaica without their families, they would leave too.

 

Regardless, you popped into this thread on post #28 with this statement:

<blockquote>"Sure, if you want to ask me some questions, I guess I can do my best. I was over there in 2003. When were you?"</blockquote>It was an effort to disparage the prior statement "Speak with someone who's been over there, and you'll likely get a far different story" and lend support to one of the delusional, radical right-wing, Bush dead-ender dickheads that frequent this forum (and was the OP of this particular liberal-bashing thread).

I called you on it. It doesn't sound like you saw a lot of action during your one Iraq tour in 2003. You still manage to omit the length of your Iraq tour. As I previously stated, I suspect it wasn't more than 7 months (and that includes in and out processing, so the actual in-country time was probably less than 5 months). You further claim that you had an idyllic chain-of-command and everyone you knew or spoke with was, is, and continues to be in full support of OIF. I was there in 2003, too, but probably for a lot longer.

So, my Iraq 'experience' was far less enjoyable than yours and the vast majority of Army soldiers I knew and met didn't seem to like it one bit. Well, the ones that seemed to have half a brain, anyway. From what I know, most of the ones that didn't like it are no longer in the military and got out at the first opportunity (like me).

I will admit there were a couple of guys in my unit that claimed unwavering, blind loyalty and support to the effort, but neither seemed particularly good at their jobs, either. Strangely, at least one of them is no longer in the military but is trying for political office in New Jersey. He proudly displays photos of himself in Iraq on his website.

The bottom line is that I, unlike you, agree with the sentiment that Iraq was, is, and will continue to be f**ked-up as a football, thanks entirely to the ill-conceived US invasion by Vietnam-era Air National Guardsman G.W. Bush, Dick "I had other priorities (than Vietnam)" Cheney, and the rest, except maybe for Rumsfeld who although never saw actual combat (and had to be the cockiest turd of the Bush administration, which is really saying something) was a real active-duty Naval aviator.

But I will concede that any service member who served in a hostile fire zone, regardless of what they did or for how long, does have more license to comment on the circumstances of that specific conflict than someone whose entire support of the war effort amounts to slapping a magnet on the trunk of their vehicle (right next to their 'W' sticker).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]454498[/snapback]</div>

I like how you label anyone who served and doesn't share your opinion as a "dickhead", "brainless", or at best, "bad at their jobs". Thanks. Your disdain for all things military is clearly apparent, and I am sorry that you chose to waste your time in the service. May you have better luck in your future vocations that have better morale issues.

I am not a Bush supporter, nor have I ever voted for him. FWIW, I joined under Clinton. Most of the people I know, like most first time enlistees, ended up getting out, but they knew that prior to 9/11. They never planned on staying in. They still don't regret it, or harbor ill feelings for having joined.

Most people are proud of their service. You mourn it. Once I joined, I knew I was going to stay in. It fits, and I enjoy working with other people, who for the most part, want to be where they are, and are looking out for their friends. I don't agree with everything the military does, nor the government, but that is true of everything.

Chances are, you would have hated the military even in peace time, with no deployments.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Army5339 @ Jun 3 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]454503[/snapback]</div>

I don't think so.

TIS = 15 years.

I didn't get one bonus, either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]454498[/snapback]</div>

That was my quote about asking someone who was over there. My nephew was (is again) and my wife and I (it's her nephew by blood, mine by marriage) spoke with him about it while he was back home for a few weeks.

As I recall, his detail was manning a supply route in/out of Ramadi - keeping anyone from booby-trapping it w/IED's. His basic comment about the people over there was that they were "primitive" and seemed to have nothing else but a fascination with blowing things up. When we asked if he thought we (USA) were doing the right thing over there, his replies seemed to me to carry very little conviction; almost like he was told not to say anything negative. He would not talk about Bush at all, except to refer to him in a "colorful" way. He would, however, immediately ask what we and the people back home thought of the war, and we tried to be as positive as we could since we knew he was going back into that hellhole. We felt expressing what our feelings would serve no real positive results; to tell him what we really thought would serve no purpose other than to possibly detrimentally affect his focus. Neither of us felt it was the right thing to do at the time - but we do hope to have the opportunity to discuss this when he's home for good.

I was trying to point out with my post how easy it is for some to sit back and play armchair general - and I have refrained in this post and many others from saying what a few people have finally said to some who are so pro-war: if you are so convinced it's the ONLY solution, then get off your nice person and join in.

It seems only a few understand that we can respect our troops while being disgusted with the administration's handling of this unnecessary war. I hope those on here who have served in this or have family serving in it can understand this. It doesn't mean we're weak, spineless, Islam-loving, tree-hugging liberals who think everything would be okay if we could just talk about it. It means we think talking should be at least tried before reaching for a gun.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]454507[/snapback]</div>

What was your rank when you got out?

And you added the bonus quip. Just because you served 15 years doesn't mean you liked it. Do you feel like you wasted those 15 years?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Army5339 @ Jun 3 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]454511[/snapback]</div>

SGT

No, it was a good gig while it lasted.

But I never would have done it if I had ever thought in my wildest dreams something as stupid as OIF would get me deployed into a hostile fire zone.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 04:01 PM) [snapback]454513[/snapback]</div>

15 years of active duty, and you made E-5?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Jun 3 2007, 04:01 PM) [snapback]454513[/snapback]</div>

So you had issues with getting deployed to a hostile fire zone?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ Jun 2 2007, 09:36 PM) [snapback]454165[/snapback]</div>

So you're saying that your contribution to the war is basically equivalent to anyone(including liberals) who pay as much taxes as you? Wow. You really do support the troops. Good for you Mr. "I make $93,000 after taxes, I live with white people only and am proud of it, and I went to a top ten college." You do know that Liberty University is not top ten college right?