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Irony, more efficient car, more miles

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When we got our first Prius, I noticed I was driving more miles. With half the fuel cost of our earlier car, I thought nothing of taking more trips and thus drove more miles.

    Recently I replaced our first Prius with an even more efficient ride and my miles increased again. I especially noticed it this week when the new car (actually used) has been in the shop for warranty repairs and I had to revert to our 2010 Prius.

    So this morning, the gas gauge went 'ping' and I'm on the remaining +100 miles in the tank. Didn't I fill up just a week or so ago? Actually that was just under 500 miles ago whereas I'm usually going +600 miles between fill-ups. One possibility is the new car is 'unlearning' the Prius tricks we use to maximize efficiency:
    • Engine efficient acceleration - In the Prius, we accelerate trying to avoid going over 3,200 rpm to stay within the most efficient engine operating range. In contrast, new car has no such limitations. Rather the fixed vehicle overhead encourages accelerating a little faster to minimize this parasitic load effect (see there is a scientific reason for street dragging in the new car!)
    • Traction battery limited braking - Whenever we can, we avoid braking or minimize how hard. It doesn't take much to exceed the MG2-to-traction battery power limitations, 36 hp (27 kW) which then requires Prius friction braking. In contrast, the new car has 168 hp (125 kW) of regenerative braking.
    The 2010 Prius and our new car are different architectures and efficient driving requires a different style. If we apply new car style driving to the Prius it doesn't do so well. However, application of Prius habits to the new car plays very well.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've noticed a lot of new prius drivers mention that phenomenon as well.

    with ev, i'm wondering if pulse and glide doesn't work to some extent to get more miles per kWh? i still drive it like hybrid mode.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Have you tried it with your PiP?

    When I benchmarked pulse-and-glide in our 2003 Prius, I could get 10-15% more miles per gallon swinging between 25 to 42 mph. My acceleration was at cruise control rate and the glide was with engine-off in "N". But this best case is wildly impractical in ordinary driving. On top of that, our new car is nearly 2-3x more efficient than our 2003 Prius. You can reach a point where you're 'polishing the musket balls.'

    The irony is the range limitations of our new car would beg doing everything possible to extend it YET I've never seen in the forums any mention of 'pulse and glide.' In fact, other than my graphs and benchmarks, they are pretty much 'not very technical.' Of course it could just be me. <grins>

    So I am content to use automatic cruise control to pace myself behind my favorite Prius camouflage, large trucks or pickups towing trailers. Given how impractical pulse-and-glide is in ordinary traffic, I'm not sure there is anything to be gained.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is you.:cool: and we are going to miss it. i haven't tried to measure it of course. one problem i see is that acceleration is thirsty, and i'm not sure gliding will make up for it. a light foot seems to work best, but i have no proof.
     
  5. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I noticed that as well. As we moved to EVs I started driving more miles/year.
    Once the supercharger network was sufficient (a bit over three years ago now) our annual miles went way up as we replaced other modes of transportation (airplanes, company cars, etc) with driving our EV.

    Around town, I have also become a much more agressive driver (which probably puts me at just below average, instead of way below average). However, I tend to use all the tricks driving a Prius taught me when making cross country trips. Especially camouflage (love that term Bob).
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I haven't tried rolling "N" in the new car, yet. I would have to set the cruise control to 'fixed' speed and then shift into "N" until it reaches 25 mph. Then hit resume and hope the new car would resume the fixed speed. Then repeat the runs at the fixed, equivalent speeds. If I think about it, I might get curious enough to try. Regardless, it is something best played when there is no other traffic around.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. When fully automated driverless electric cars becomes a reality, there will be more cars and more people on the road.

    I think people will be letting their cars drive them to their destinations while they sleep overnight. They will do their business or sightseeing during the day and let their cars drive them to the next destination the next nights. It will be a lot cheaper and less hassle than an airplane ticket, a hotel room, and a rental car. Cars will probably grow similar to RVs to accommodate a larger rest/work area. I actually look forward to ditching my RV and do another coast to coast trip thru National Parks, this time bypassing hotels or campgrounds. That's the good part (for me at least who does a lot of RV travel).

    The bad part is anybody who can afford a car will have one driving them around. From under aged spoiled rich kids to geriatric patients normally unable to drive. There will be abusers who will let their car drive around the block for 15 minutes because it's easier and cheaper than hunting a parking and paying for it. Then there will be those who will own several cars to UBER 24 hours for them while they work their regular jobs. I tell you, automated driverless cars will be opening a huge can of worms for us.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    like every other technology, the good, and the bad.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You won't be able to Uber your driverless car. Uber will just get their own, and dump their 'contractors'.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bad enough getting in your own driverless car, i can't imagine one pulling up for me out of nowhere.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Uber and Lyft are partnering will car companies with driverless tech.
     
  12. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. I'm totally aware that's what UBER is planning.

    But it's just an app. So if they do, someone else will step in and fill in the gap. Someone probably on local city level that will not have as much capitalization as they have and still need the population to shoulder the car payments.