Is Hell Forever?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]402281[/snapback]</div>

Quit whining, or we'll have to put the smack down on ya ... LOL :lol: :lol:

Must someone explain everything......

Its obvious he spaced out the sentences so that maggieddd could read them

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]402281[/snapback]</div>

Quit whining, or we'll have to put the WWF smack down on ya ... :lol: :lol:

Must someone explain everything to others......

Its obvious he spaced out the sentences so that maggieddd could read them

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Mar 8 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]402228[/snapback]</div>

Well, here's another explanation:
The word "Hell" isn't really even in the Bible. It is the word that the KJV and many other translations randomly translate the Hebrew word Sheol, or the Greek words Hades or Gehenna. The KJV and others also randomly translate Sheol or Hades as "pit", "grave", or even "the world of the dead", depending what "flavor" they are trying to give the text. However, the Sheol and Hades actually refer to the common grave of dead mankind, whereas the Greek Gehenna, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. As someone else mentioned, it was the garbage dump outside Jerusalem where NOTHING or NO ONE was EVER thrown alive. Things thrown there were simply burned up and destroyed. It is this willy-nilly translation of 3 different words that has allowed the translators to spin the text, depending whether it was a "good" person or a "bad" person that was said to go there. The New World Translation I use simply renders the original Greek or Hebrew word in those texts, which enables the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.
According to the Encylopedia Americana:
“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.â€â€”The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.
"Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’â€
"Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hellâ€: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.†"
Job and other faithful men of old even prayed to go to Sheol, as they knew it was simply the grave, a place of rest from their grief or pain they were undergoing. Jesus himself went to Hell (KJV), but not on some special mission or some other fairy tale. He was DEAD. He died and remained dead in the grave for 3 days, until God raised him on the third day.
"he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Ha′des nor did his flesh see corruption". (Acts 2:31, NWT)
Hellfire is another one of those pagan teachings that was adopted into the Catholic faith, and from there spread into most others:
"The idea of a “hell†of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell†says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.†The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.†Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World†as featuring “pits of fire†for “the damned.â€â€”The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200."
BTW, I too am tiring of Daniel's incessant trolling on religious topics. He OBVIOUSLY has no intent on actually LEARNING any answers to his questions, but is just baiting people in so he can verbally abuse them some more. So much for his professed pacifism.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Mar 8 2007, 02:10 PM) [snapback]402292[/snapback]</div>

Yes


Look at me I can make


My post look bigger


As if I have more input on the issue


It is really just smoke and mirrors though


More than half of the content of my posts is


not even words of my own


but you know..


When I post like this it proves


That I know what I'm talking about


I mean, hitting enter 3 times after every line


is so freaking awesome


and an excellent forum ethic.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 8 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]402301[/snapback]</div>

I haven't noticed that as much as windstrings and loveit trying to bait me so they can tell me how wrong or how blind or foolish I am. I think mostly Daniel is pointing out the hypocrisy and intolerance that he is seeing.

hell (in Buddhism)
Hell. The lowest and most fearful of the Realms of Existence. In many discourses the Buddha describes hell as an actual place while in others he seems to suggest that it is only a name for the experience of extreme suffering. He says "When the average ignorant person says that hell is under the sea, he is saying something that is false and without basis, the word hell is a name for painful feeling". The Buddhist conception of hell differs considerably from those of some other religions. There is no divine judge to condemn one to hell, rather one's own evil Kamma gives rise to rebirth in this realm. Re-birth in hell is determined by one's actions not primarily by one's beliefs. Thus no good person no matter what their religion will be re-born in hell. Hell is not eternal and when one's lifespan there is finished one will be re-born in one of the other realms.

From The Buddha Dharma Education Assocation and BuddhaNet (2005). Text © BDEA/BuddhaNet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 12:52 PM) [snapback]402269[/snapback]</div>

I read it all. Was the answer somewhere in between your sentences where the blank lines are?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]402344[/snapback]</div>

are you kiddin?.. Hell is being on this Thread!.. Help!... I can't get out!!!!... LOL!



No but if you look in the area where suggestions are made to the administrators, I comment on how my lines seemed double if not triple spaced when I broadcast from IE from my work computer.... funky I know...



I have to go back and delete all the line by "re-editing" the whole thing..



I don't know whats up.. but when I'm at home on FF it doesn't so that.... oh well...


If you notice the two lines above they are together, but when I hit the space bar to make "one" space, it double spaces....




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Mar 8 2007, 01:33 PM) [snapback]402361[/snapback]</div>

I don't think they were there.. it went through that space between your eyes.....


Just kiddin DDD!... kissy kissy!

 

It obviously isn't the Administrators problem because all of our posts look normal.. just fyi.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]402269[/snapback]</div>

No, in church...where do you go to Bible study, in a little box with no windows, so you can't see outside??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]402269[/snapback]</div>

Well, it is, ya monk. You would know that, if you could possibly see beyond your tiny narrow vision...

I am through with giving a crap if you like me, or not...but the truth is, ALAN, that you are part of the problem with the church. You are like the Pharisees of old; when Christ was in front of them, they could not see Him, since they were so wrapped up in dogma.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]402269[/snapback]</div>

Neither. I am speaking the truth, bout God, and the Bible. I have no tails, nor big teeth...I am your worse f**king nightmare. I am a PREACHER who is not afraid to speak the whole truth about The Bible. It is a FLAWED book, flawed because MAN IS f**kED UP. Do you get it yet?


I am sorry to use such language, but your types are worse then atheists; at least they are honest with why they don't believe. I can deal with them. I won't sugar coat it for them either.
But I won't tell someone with a straight face, that the Bible is 'the perfect word of God', when it is NOT. I have asked you time and time again about parts of the Bible that are obviously in conflict with other parts, yet you never answer them. You are so blind, I often wonder if you have a seeing eye dog typing this in for you.

You insult those who don't believe, you insult those who do believe, but believe different then you do; I have had it. I am a patent man, but you have pushed me too far.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]402269[/snapback]</div>

I am a PREACHER. You know, a PASTOR. I have been doing this for over 10 years. Before that, I studied for over 15 years. I was training at one point to be a Priest.


What I am, again, is HONEST. I won't lie about this. I won't pretend that I know it all, but I will say, that the Bible, while not perfect, has moments of direct clarity, and it 30-40% correct, which is astounding for a book that has NO ORIGINAL HANDWRITTEN TRANSCRIPTS. We are working with COPIES OF COPIES, and transcribed by MAN.


MISTAKES are all over the Bible. Simple mistakes, like how some words like HELL weren't even in the original tongue. Some glaring, like how Moses somehow wrote about his death, after he had died.

I could go on, but why bother? You will just compare me to a devil or something, and mock me, and then when your cronies come along, they will back you, and slam me...

Fine. Whatever. Personally, I should not let my temper get to me over you and your mistakes, but for whatever reason, this time, I did.

I apologize to those who may have been offended.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Mar 8 2007, 06:11 PM) [snapback]402438[/snapback]</div>

I like you. You're my new hero. Thank you for preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and not a bunch of Dooms-Day, Nay-Saying, Homophobic, anti-anything but Christian rhetoric.

Sincerely, thank you. The world needs more people like you. People like windstrings and loveit give real Christians a bad name. They perpetuate the stereotype of the "We're Right, you're going to burn in hell forever" mentality. It is completely contradictory to the true teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

That would be like Buddhists telling people that aren't Buddhist that they are going to be reincarnated into an animal or will suffer in the bottom realm of "hell" for not being a Buddhist. What a very terrible assumption/judgement to put on someone.

Being raised in Catholic/Christian schools, I know the true teachings of Jesus Christ. I know how true followers of Christ act, and you, my friend, are one of the few that walk the walk AND talk the talk, on this forum. For this, I thank you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]402419[/snapback]</div>

Now cut that out!.. that almost sounds like liberal reasoning!.....



"the whole world revolves around the liberal you know?, and how they percieve the world, is the way it is you know?



If a tree fell and a liberal didn't see it.. it obviously didn't happen!.... don't think in a box and be narrow minded like the liberals.... just because it doesn't do it with yours has nothing to do with why it does it with mine!.. LOL!.....



Funniest part... the liberal can't even see it!.. LOL!... I guess its part of being blind....



Just like the mentally ill doesn't think thier sick, nor does the alcoholic, nor does the adulterer think there is a problem, nor does the pervert see the wrong, nor does the child molester see why they should be jailed...



Lets see how this works.. If every man is right in thier own eyes.. then everybody must be right!!!.. yep.. I think I pegged the liberal mentality!



Oh Hell "can't exist!".. I just don't see it!.....

 

I can't tell if you're calling me a liberal or coming to the realization that crazy people don't know they're crazy......

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 06:24 PM) [snapback]402448[/snapback]</div>

I've had an encounter with Windstrings in another thread and second this sentiment. After conversing with him I've found that we don't have to wait for his God to judge us on our us day. He's found it appropriate to take on this act himself throughout the course of his life. Also, I find it interesting the such a God loving Christian finds it appropriate to be so rude and condescending to other people without any prodding. He applies no adjustments to his engagement with others by amending his approach to elicit the best outcome from a particular individual. This is a technique that has to be employed if one is not going to be viewed as socially inept. He hasn't seemed to have learned this skill and he arbitrarily attacks anyone he sees fit. If I had to put money on who I thought best alienated those that were in their life, I'd bet on him and not Daniel. I also hope Windstrings doesn't have a cat, as does Daniel. I like to think that pet guardians exhibit some sort of kindness. Besides, he would probably damn his cat to hell as it doesn't understand the Bible and believe in his God. Ok, now I'm just blabbing and venting. I'm trying to not engage in these threads as the last one left me with a very bad taste for some of these people's behavior....Daron and Windstrings, most notably. The former is a hypocrite and the latter is just plain rude and arrogant. Who'd want want to spend their ever after with this type of company anyway?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Mar 8 2007, 06:08 PM) [snapback]402471[/snapback]</div>

Oh Geeze, lets just keep it going......

I wish everyone would tell me just what I wanted to hear too, instead of the truth. I'd be a happy man...

Lets all gang up on him and chop off his perverbial head so we can skip merrily thread to thread and show off the head on the stick.. <_<

Its obvious this thread is dwindling down to the bottom of the barrel... B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Mar 8 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]402471[/snapback]</div>

Funny how your the victim now!.... I'm sorry to have ganged up on you all!..

You guys really can't stomach you own medicine!....

If you see it as condescending to consider you wrong and me right because the whole bible backs what I say.. so be it...

Your right.. please accept my apology..it is very rude to tell you your wrong... but I guess if I had it to do all over again.. your still wrong!...


Just because you can seek out someone that says your ok.. even a so called pastor..that doesn't make you right.... how about see what God says?....



But you don't want to do that.....


If I offend.. that doesn't make you right and it doesn't make me right.. but I am!

No one likes the truth if it shows thier wrong, evil, ugliness and sin.

They all want to be stroked and told what a wonderful person they are and when they die, there will be lollipops and virgins!

You guys need to all go back to your mommies and she will make it all better....

Can you hear truth or not?....

You only delight in games that torment Christians to stroke your fears and evil concious..... when someone quits stroking your fur and puts your nose down into your own vomit.... yea you get offended..... so whats the big deal? Sin stinks....

Just like bad BO.. everybody smells it but you.... you still can't see how living the way you live is not wrong.

Is it vomit and does it stink, or will you persist in covering it up and perfuming it and telling yourself its ok?


Leave Christians alone and they will leave you alone... but you can't stand that.. you have to march and protest thier love for thier God and proclaim him and the bible a fraud.

Just who is the victim here?

You poor babies are pathetic sometimes....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 8 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]402301[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it is tiring when people who disagree with you won't shut up, isn't it? While I admit to some lighthearted fun concerning the Flying Spaghetti Monster, my comments on Christianity and its imaginary man in the sky are sincere. When the intentional rejection of logic and common sense leads to as much hatred and killing as does religion, then I am sickened, and I speak my mind. When people try to inject their narrow interpretations of exclusivist religions into the laws of our country, for the purpose of denying whole classes of people their basic rights, then I fight back. And when people tell me I should believe in their god or he'll spank me, I reply: bullshit!

However, the feeling expressed in your quote above is not mutual. I like you, and I enjoy reading your posts. Although young-Earth creationism is downright wacky, in the face of all the scientific knowledge we have regarding evolution and the age of the Earth and the universe, I enjoy the intelligent way you Jehovah's Witnesses demolish some of the more cruel myths held by the majority of Christians, such as the myth of hell. And while talking to Pentacostalists makes me angry, talking to Jehovah's Witnesses is always enjoyable, because the former delight in their insistence that anyone they don't like will burn for all eternity, while the latter are happier to see people pardoned than punished.

I like you, Keydiver, as I like TJ. I'll go on arguing with you, but I like you.

 

Windstrings.. Like I said before.. you need to have a nice sit down talk with your Pastor.

You're way out of line.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Mar 8 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]402483[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I almost posted words a kin to this a couple days ago and thought against it. I usually try to not engage people with a mode of attack. If he chooses to exhibit such rude and condescending behavior I would just not find him worthy of my while and wouldn't address him one way or the other. It's the blatant contradictions he exhibits that I can't reconcile with a quiet tongue. He claims to have all the answers, declares himself a model Christian, condemns the rest of us to hell for not believing as he does, tops off the entire delivery of his message with a dollop of rudeness and name calling, all the while performing this entire spectacle with complete abandon of compassion and understanding. Is this the "Christian" way that I'm to engage in order to be saved? If this is your contention, we've hit more than the bottom of the barrel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 06:47 PM) [snapback]402485[/snapback]</div>

Very well said, If one looks at most of the threads in FHOP you can plainly see people ganging up on one or two posters and its just fine with everyone... But if the tables are turned the MODS are emailed and are forced to step in... :mellow:

I wonder if [you] where to have everyone climbing your frame & belittling you because they do not believe in the same thing you do. How would you feel? Just trying to put everyone in others shoes... :huh:

I mean really, to see so many passionately defend what they believe in on some of these threads. Its amazing and they have my respect even if I do not believe in the same thing as they do...

FHOP seems to be 80% liberal & 20% everything else....

Please tell me more of what I want to hear, SUGAR COAT IT BABY! I'll sit here with my rose coloerd glasses and soak it up.... B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 06:47 PM) [snapback]402485[/snapback]</div>

Funny how you're the victim now!.... I'm sorry to have ganged up on you all!..

You guys really can't stomach you own medicine!....

If you see it as condescending to consider you wrong and me right because reality backs what I say.. so be it...

You're right.. please accept my apology..it is very rude to tell you you're wrong... but I guess if I had it to do all over again.. your still wrong!...

Just because you can seek out someone that says you're ok.. even a so called pastor..that doesn't make you right.... how about see what The Flying Spaghetti Monster says?....


But you don't want to do that.....


If I offend.. that doesn't make you right and it doesn't make me right.. but I am!

No one likes the truth if it shows thier wrong, evil, ugliness and sin.

They all want to be stroked and told what a wonderful person they are and when they die, there will be lollipops and virgins!

You guys need to all go back to your mommies and she will make it all better....

Can you hear truth or not?....

You only delight in games that torment non-Christians to stroke your fears and evil concious..... when someone quits stroking your fur and puts your nose down into your own vomit.... yea you get offended..... so whats the big deal? Lies stink....

Just like bad BO.. everybody smells it but you.... you still can't see how living the way you live is wrong.

Is it vomit and does it stink, or will you persist in covering it up and perfuming it and telling yourself it's ok?


Leave Non-Christians alone and they will leave you alone... but you can't stand that.. you have to march and protest their disbelief for your God even though he and the bible are a fraud.

Just who is the victim here?

You poor babies are pathetic sometimes....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 8 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]402485[/snapback]</div>

Couple things here, Alan.

First, it's YOU'RE, not YOUR. YOUR is possessive, YOU'RE is the contraction of YOU ARE; it's the latter you're trying to employ (if the context of your sentences can be used as a reliable gauge of grammatical intent, that is. I must say in all candor that my use of the word "reliable" in this case runs the risk, from what I have seen of your posts, of being too generous. I'm fairly certain what we see is the direct stream off your keyboard, unedited and unproofread. Still, I'm pretty sure you mean YOU'RE, not YOUR).

Second, I doubt very much the more sensible respondents to your posts take offense at your declaring them wrong. After all, most of the dialogue along these lines amounts to each party trying to persuade the other that they're wrong: that's fully half the legitimate objective of any debate, the other half being convincing your adversary that not only is he wrong but that your view is right.

The objection isn't to being called wrong, it's to being called names, and otherwise insulted. If you were to remove such invective from your posts, a number of advantages would immediately accrue:
(1) Your posts would be shortened by about a third to one half, making them easier to read.
(2) The points you're trying to make would come across more clearly.
(3) The number of insults thrown back over the fence at you would decrease.
(4) You won't cripple even good arguments by so freighting them with useless acrimony they collapse, defeating your objective, which is to persuade, not belittle.

I don't in the slightest believe in your "god", but I gather that one of YOUR beliefs is that your "god" appreciates your assistance in persuading people like me that he really exists and needs me to love him.
Believing that, the last thing you should be doing is alienating those you seek to persuade.

Likewise, guys like me trying to persuade YOU that such beliefs are nonsense should refrain from wrapping our arguments around grenades, and simply stick to facts.

It's a challenge, but I think we can manage it.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Mar 8 2007, 08:07 PM) [snapback]402494[/snapback]</div>

There's a matter of having a consideration for another person's belief system with an open, non prejudicial mind. I'm married to a man of a different faith and we've yet to have an argument about it. It's actually a non issue. He believes as he does and I choose "not" to believe as I do. It's not impossible to have a respectful and amicable discussion about differing beliefs. It's when name calling, force of belief and condemnation gets thrown in the mix that problems, disputes,anger and violence arise. That's the point I made about amending one's approach for the respective recipient of one's message. Your pal's lacking in this area. If he's truly concerned about saving people, he'd be more effective with a little humility and compassion. After all, he's claiming that he speaks the message on behalf of his God and he certainly doesn't provide a very welcoming environment.

Post edited to remove a hint of harmless sarcasm. I thought it best that I provide you with as welcoming an environment as possible, Priusguy! I don't want to entice any of those icky penny handshakes from you after all. hee hee.