Is it selfish to not want more kids?

The real selfish people are those who want kids but who don't care about their kids enough to have one parent stay home full time to raise them. THOSE are the people who are selfish. I have no problem with parents who have just one kid, or have ten kids, as long as they can afford to raise them in a healthy environment AND have one parent be a full-time stay at home care-giver.

Dave

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zapranoth @ May 21 2007, 11:43 PM) [snapback]447159[/snapback]</div>

All of my dogs have been neutered, if not that way when I got them they went to the Vet to get 'Tutored'.

What gave you the impression I was an irresponsible pet owner? Because I adopted more than one dog at a time?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 22 2007, 08:23 AM) [snapback]447256[/snapback]</div>

Well, for every extra dog I adopt, that is one less dog that might be euthanized. And my dog's are neutered so they're not contributing to the overpopulation like some irresponsible pet owners. My only selfish act is that I will NOT adopt any dog that has Pitbull or Chow in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ May 21 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]446852[/snapback]</div>

Yes, that's so true when the families get stressed because of all the activities that the kids are participating in.

I knew a couple who had 4 kids and they told each child that they could only participate in one afterschool activity. One child wanted to do piano and an outdoor sports activity. Both mom and dad said no can do, choose 1 or the other. If you can't, it will be neither. So the kid chose piano.

This type of thinking gets the kids to know that they can't have everything and that there are other people to consider, not to mention a limitation on the parents resources, and not just money but timewise as well.

Personally, my spouse and I married in our early thirties and we had 2 daughters. One is almost 23 and has been married for 4 years. She completed 4 years of college and is waiting to get into med school. The other just turned 18 a couple of months ago and is ready to go to a trade school in about a month for a couple of years.

For a lot of people it's a very personal thing. But both my spouse and I wanted to make sure that our children were able to get a good, quality education so that they will be responsible, contributing, members of society.

Besides the best necklace a person could wear around his/her neck are the arms of an appreciative and loving offspring. And no amount of money can't buy that!

But I think it's wonderful if people choose to adopt. It just shows that their heart is in the right place!

 

Having children (or not) is the most important decision anyone can make, and it is a very personal choice. So why would anyone seek an answer to that question by posting it on FHOP? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loveit @ May 22 2007, 08:32 PM) [snapback]447674[/snapback]</div>

We've limited our kids to one sport/season for those very reasons. We've always let them try new things; my son tried soccer, basketball amd baseball and always came back to soccer, and he plays that exclusively now (he still plays basketball recreationally, skateboards, etc.). My daughter's tried gymnastics, soccer, and will be trying basketball over the summer - but she seems pretty set on soccer at this point also.

However, I would not force them to choose between a musical instrument and a team sport; then again, I only have two, not four...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ May 22 2007, 06:46 PM) [snapback]447620[/snapback]</div>

wow, i take exception to the "you don't care about your kids if you put them in daycare" argument. i have worked so hard to build a career that i can use to support my family. as a consequence, my future kids will have to go to daycare so i can use those years of effort to provide for them what they need. or i can throw away the investment... hmm lemme think about that for a second. is it selfish for me to throw 10+ years of my life into education so that i can provide for my family? is it selfish for me to have married someone who would not make a good "house husband"?

or maybe phd's have made too many poor life choices to be a parent anyway

 

We made a conscious decision to be home with our kids as much as possible. We've suffered for it financially, but I have strong, healthy relationships with both of them that none of us would trade for anything.

 

personal attack post deleted.

 

Time out for you, Dave. You're speaking to a stereotype, not galaxee. Come back when you can play nice. <_<

 

First of all I commend the numerous people on here who have stood out and chosen to have no kids. You have re-established my faith in our race. Again, where I live if you don't have kids people think there is something wrong with you, its like a requirement of marriage. There is nothing wrong with not wanting or maybe better yet needing kids... Its too bad more people don't take this stance...because lets face it there are too many parents out there who have no business even having kids in the first place.

As for the daycare issue. My wife has sacrificed her college degree to make next to nothing managing a day care operation. She believes she is making a difference for the numerous kids out there whose parents cannot afford to be a stay at home parent. Its partially selfish as well because she has been able to at least make some money while being able to raise our daughter every moment of every day. Its a tradeoff that was worth it in the end. The reality of daycare really set in for her as the kids got older, she now runs a before and after school program for a local school district. The 'daycare' kids have now become school kids who spend up to 10 hours a day at school because their parents are too busy at work. These kids become almost baggage to their parents...something that is dropped off and picked up 5 days a week. No its not the majority, but to see more then a few is depressing indeed. In short daycare is a necessary evil but parents need to make up for the lost time, not set their kids up for years of care by strangers. Kudos goes out to all their parents out there that made sacrifices to be their kids mom or dad, rather then paying someone else to do it. Oh and don't get me started on having grandparents around to help with care, if anyone out there thinks their kids are safe with grandma and grandpa on a daily basis, take a day and follow them around covertly, what you may see would shock you...

My final pet peeve would be the average kids per family numbers. Some on here have said it all averages out and we in the US are keeping our population under control. Excuse me? Have you seen our highways? You need HOV stickers in CA just to move greater then 10 miles an hour.. We have thousands of transplants in our county from New York and Maryland because those states can't support them anymore....so what's happening to my county? Our local farmland is quickly shrinking to support 'high density' housing to place all these transplants...because 'people have to live somewhere' to quote a local township representative. I don't care about raw numbers look around you...the planet is not the same as it was even 10 years ago. For all those people who vacation in our area and think wow this is muich better then where we live, we should move here....I say stay home and make your area a better place to live, rather then dragging our county down with you..

End Rant

 

what Darken said. Great post. Look around a bit... THAT's the reality check. The planet can only support so many mouths...and the rate of consumption of natural resources has reached a breaking point. and more people ain't the answer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ May 23 2007, 02:22 AM) [snapback]447933[/snapback]</div>

You might want to read a little more carefully and actually quote what galaxee wrote. She did not, as you quote above, state that she was throwing AWAY 10+ years of her life for her kids, she asked if it was "selfish for me to throw 10+ years of my life into education so that i can provide for my family?".

Nice job of not only taking things out of context, but deliberately misquoting her to support your conclusions. You got issues, dude.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ May 23 2007, 01:22 AM) [snapback]447933[/snapback]</div>

Wow... do you not know anything about Galaxee? working on her PhD, barely scraping by, has a Prius, an old corolla that just got totaled - and rather than buying a new car her and her DH are getting another old corolla to drop the engine into. They've had medical problems and the like... In no way are her and her DH anything like you described...

And to make another point here, wealth disparity across the country has really changed things. 20 years ago, you could have one person working a decent job and be considered middle class and afford the things you and your children want/need while saving up for their education. Now, you would need two adults working those same jobs to count as middle class and be able to afford all that stuff. Unless one person has a great job that pays really well, you almost need to have both parents working in todays society.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darken @ May 23 2007, 03:47 AM) [snapback]447978[/snapback]</div>

Just to comment, this is due less to the birth rate (which, as stated before, is about 2 children/woman) and more with the immigration rate, which is 3.10 people/1000 population. The birth rate is really just maintaining the status quo, while the immigration rate is causing all the problems. Certain cities, like New York, LA, and Chicago are huge and have all those problems you mentioned - but thats because they're considered business centers for the world. Other cities don't have those problems nearly as bad. When i lived in Ohio, we didn't have those problems... Heck, i grew up literally less than 10 minutes from the middle of downtown, and there were two farms and a cow pasture between my house and my high school. Here in the Twin Cities, i've only been stuck in slow moving traffic due to an accident or severe weather, and i think we have more green space than any city i've ever visited.

Yes, the problem is bad around some major cities. But there's also a ton of the country that is comparatively empty. The real problem we have is that our culture and our businesses require us to group massive amounts of people in a small area to get "work" done. Move away from those big cities into the middle of the country, and you'll see life is very, very different.

 

Wow. What a lot of mean comments and personal attacks! I hope not everybody on this thread is reproducing.

As for the original post, you don't have to decide now. Get adjusted to your second child. Enjoy your family as it is. This is not a race. There is no quota. Relax. Get some sleep. And congratulations!

 

Nope not in the least is it selfish

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 23 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]448117[/snapback]</div>

so i missed the attacking post (though i must say i expected it...) but from what i gather from eagle's quote here i was made out to be some privileged kid or something.

all i can say is that that is 100% the opposite of the truth. dude, i don't know what you said to get your post deleted and all quotes of it deleted as well, but i have spent my life working up in the world from next to nothing. i refuse to be hear the 'i'm a bad mother' argument or anything else because i work to support my family and provide a better life for my children than i have had.

consider situations other than your own. and chill out a little.

 

You can make the argument both ways:

It is selfish to want more kids because you are bringing unnecessary people into an already over-populated world.

It is selfish to not want more kids because you're placing your own happiness and comfort over that of your (potential) children.

I think that both are gross over-simplifications and the real decision is an intensely personal one. I totally agree with what formerVWdriver said just a few posts above this one: it's not a race. You don't have to make the decision now. Enjoy the kids you have and you can cross the "more kids" bridge when you come to it. If you never get around to having more kids, that's fine.

For my family in particular (no kids yet; we're not even married yet), we don't know exactly what we're going to do. We both very much want kids, and my S.O. is a teacher and she has really seen how much some of the adoptees in her class have benefited from having a strong, loving family. Our current feelings are that we don't have a strong need for our children to have a biological tie to us, so we may go the adoption route. However, I reserve the right to completely change our mind, and I think that everyone should have that right. People should think hard about what the best choice for their family is and then make a decision; you should feel free to make new decisions as situations change; maybe after you have one kid you'll want to have 5 more and maybe you'll want to stop after one.

It comes down to this: no one's personal choice on this matter is fundamentally "better" than anyone else's. As long as you care for and love whatever children you have, you should make whatever choice is right for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ May 23 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]448218[/snapback]</div>

I saw it and have to say that I'm worse off for having read it. You always find extremists in every conversation and, as is often the case, the extremist posts add very little to the discussion. Of course, the hilarious thing is that such a vitriolic, personal attack was couched in the context of "love" (of one's children).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ May 23 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]448218[/snapback]</div>

In the final analysis, you missed nothing. In this case being offline was a good thing. It added, as betelgeuse points out, little to the discourse, and I felt it's extremist nature was possibly born of some personal bitterness about the topic (imho). In any event, best not written in the first place, but if so, deleted.

Thanks to the mods.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ May 23 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]448245[/snapback]</div>

Here, here!

 

i was given the chance to read the post and yes, it was about what i expected. when you read something like that it rolls off easily enough given how it was completely irrelevant to my situation.

anyway.

two years from now it will be DOCTOR "pathetic idiot" i think he said, and said doctor will have the opportunity to PROVIDE for her family in many ways that were never afforded to her as a child.