Is Level 2 Charger Worthwhile?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by jasbar2, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. mitch672

    mitch672 Technology Geek

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    Most of the onboard vehicle chargers have a unity power factor, or close to it..

    the J-1772 protocol link is just meant for informational purposes, not trying to belittle anyone here, that link had a good explanation of how the protocol works, not everyone understands what an EVSE's purpose is, or how it functions.
     
  2. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    The Prius Plug-in displays the current going into the battery which doesn't take into account a charging efficiency of ~85%.
    1.9KW / 0.85 / 240V = 9.3A
     
  3. mitch672

    mitch672 Technology Geek

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    ok, you got me, I forgot the charger loss.
     
  4. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Is that 85% for Level 2 (240V)? What about for Level 1 (120V)?
     
  5. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Fair point, the 85% is for Level 1. I don't know what it is for Level 2, but people say the charging efficiency is higher.
     
  6. bigal

    bigal Junior Member

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    This getting permits sounds like a rip-off. Why not call your local electrician and have him install a 240 outlet. Now call your Level 2 Charger outfit. Get your charger box with a plug. If permits are required I would think it would be for the outlet only. Since the "charger" box is a plug in this does not require a permit.
     
  7. paul bailey

    paul bailey New Member

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    why are they called level 2
     

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  8. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772"]J1772[/ame] nomenclature.
    L1 = 120V single phase up to 16A
    L2 = 240V split phase up to 80A
     
  9. sdb313

    sdb313 Junior Member

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    I see in the Toyota literature the car attached to what looks like a squarish battery charger instead of being plugged directly into an outlet, as I do now. are those available somewhere?
     
  10. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    The battery chargers are located in the vehicle. This is true of all Ev's and plug-ins. What unfortunately has become to be known as Level 1 and Level 2 "chargers" in the public literature are just electronic controlled safety disconnect switches. EVSE is Electric Vehicle Safety Equipment. The EVSE contains ground fault, surge detection, power quality and quantity monitoring and other features. There is a control signal wire called the "Pilot" built into the power cord. This is used for communication between the vehicle and the EVSE to make sure everything is operating safely. Included in the Pilot signal is the number of amps of electricity the EVSE or your local electric circuit can handle, which ever is less. Generally your local electric circuit has to be safety rated above the EVSE rating as few Level 2 EVSE have an adjustable amperage setting. Level 1 EVSE (120 volt) are designed for fixed operation on the common 15 amp electric circuit.

    This misconception about the EVSE being a charger is the most common thing I have to explain about EV's and Plug-ins.
     
  11. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Seems like there would be much more worthwhile things to correct people on. I call it a charger myself. Really not a big deal.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's just a prop for the commercial/ad. instead of showing a wall plug. sounds like it could be confusing for potential buyers!:cool:
     
  13. syscon

    syscon Member

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    Can anybody explain me in simple terms, why installing 240V plug is so expensive?
    I don't have a plug-in yet, but reading the forums I'm wondering why 240V charger is so expensive (about $1000 )
    Doesn't the Prius has a charger build it? All it needs is a cord with one 240V plug at the wall and another one that connect to a car.
    Looking at some videos it is just piece of wire 30amp breaker and a wall socket, so why is the cost so high.
    Local electrician shouldn't be that expensive.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you have to break it down. first you need a 240v outlet. i installed mine for $50. in materials and a couple hours of labor. if you hire an electrician, it makes sense to get a few prices as they can vary widely. the level 2 evse also varies widely in price and can be as low as $500.? so it makes sense to shop that as well. the third option is the easy way out and usually the most expensive, you can contact companies like leviton, and they will arrange everything for you. then there are the variables such as indoor/outdoor, local permits and state/federal rebates.
     
  15. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :confused:I purchased my Leviton Level 2 16A "electronic controlled safety disconnect switch" (commonly and mistakenly referred to as a charger) from Amazon in early Februrary for $749. Checking prices in the past week, prices seem to be going up when they should be droppring?
     
  16. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    It's hilarious how many people on there that get bugged by people calling an EVSE a charger.

    Talk about turning people away from electric cars...I don't think someone could do it much faster than have someone snootily correcting them if they call it a charger.
     
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  17. syscon

    syscon Member

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    Is it needed?
    I was under impression that the charger is build into Prius and charging is controlled by some computer inside Prius.
    So why buy $700+ safety disconnect switch?

    120V needs only cord with two plugs.
    Why isn't it sufficient for 240V (cord with two plugs) and 240V socket?
     
  18. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Actually, you can upgrade the Toyota-supplied EVSE to be able to plug into a 240V socket, like a drier outlet. This service is provided by contributor to this forum. But other than drier outlets, most homes in the U.S. don't have 240V outlets, as is used in almost every other country in the world, and getting 240V involves hiring an electrician to install it (unless the owner happens to be an electrician), and some places requiring a city permit. Thus the $$. Much of the cost of the EVSE is for the patented J1772 connector, which can run around $250. The patent-holder has a legal monopoly, and is entitled to charge whatever they can get.
     
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  19. syscon

    syscon Member

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    Are there any electronics inside that connector or is it just a piece of plastic with few metal pins?
    In Canada houses are wired with 240 so installing another breaker and run a piece of wire it shouldn't be much.
    Just because it is patented doesn't mean they will get $250/connector.
    From China they are 37.50/ea or cheaper.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there are plenty of electronics inside both the L1 and L2. you can build your own if you want to, there is a thread here and links to parts and instructions. it still isn't cheap and the plug end for the car is the most expensive part.
     
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