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Is there a proper battery operating temperature?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Technical Discussion' started by tzx4, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes, I remember that - I tried it too a couple of times, but each time got interrupted by traffic. I know a stretch of road with a gentle decline where it only uses battery drive, which I'd like to see how far it went in EV downhill. And a mountain range - but I reckon that'd sort-of be cheating in "B" Mode.
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think the term Electric Vehicle is exclusive to electric vehicles, ie: ones where it's really hard to find the dipstick.
     
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  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    You mean, like the Volt?
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    More like the Leaf.
     
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  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    My point is why does the government call the Volt an EV, but the Prius is "only" a hybrid?
    They are both hybrids, unlike the Teslas & Leaf.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I wouldn't call the Volt an EV. Guess it's a technical thing, the way the engine just charges something, which in turn drives the wheels. But yeah, a fine distinction. Who ever heard of an EV that gets around 40 mpg once EV range is used up? :rolleyes:
     
    #26 Mendel Leisk, Nov 26, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Technically, the Prius is a HEV under SAE terms; a hybrid electric vehicle. Which means is an ICE with a electric side. This is to distinguish it from hydraulic hybrids(HHV), or something else that might come along.

    All the energy a Prius uses comes from gasoline added to its fuel tank though. To the public, and for some regulations, an EV is a car that can charge its battery from the grid. So the Prius isn't an EV in that regard, and we might stop making a traditional ICE to hybrid distinction as hybridization spreads, and just specify whether a car has a plug or not.
     
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  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    My point is the Prius uses a battery that could profit from this research. The article states that Toyota does not yet have a vehicle that could benefit.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Depending on what the research actually is, a hybrid might not benefit from it.

    For a hybrid battery, power density is an important attribute. This is a measure of how quickly the battery can take in and put out power for acceleration and regenerative braking. For plug in cars, energy density is more important; this is a measure of how much juice the battery can hold, and determines range. Being larger, with more individual cells makes up for the plug in pack having a lower power density than a hybrid one.

    Trying to improve energy density may not lead to improvements to power density.

    And looking at the article, they are discussing Toyota and an all-electric car. Hybrids aren't all electric. They aren't even 2% electric like Musk once said. In order to add electricity beyond what the car makes, directly and indirectly, from gasoline, you'd have to push it to the top of a mountain or really sizeable hill.
     
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  10. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    In many and various forms, HYBRID has become much more widespread, and is set to do so in other ways we haven't seen yet.

    With the vast possibility of variations, the definitions will become increasingly blurred.

    Just starting on the scale, Mazda i-ELOOP only attempts to go a small way, but it's a start - it recovers kinetic energy as electricity and stores it in a capacitor. This capacitor allows the alternator to turn off on acceleration, with electric power for ancillaries etc being provided by the stored charge in the capacitor. It isn't strictly conventional, I wouldn't call it an EV, nor a HEV - but it is a type of very limited hybrid. Possibly Mazda aren't the only ones to be doing something similar.

    PRIUS, INSIGHT et al were sold as HYBRIDS, and, except for the PlugIn PRIUS were very limited in EV ability, recovering "waste" kinetic energy and being charged by the ICE, with the ICE providing the primary motive power. They will barely drive without an ICE.

    VOLT (and others) is also a hybrid, but very different from PRIUS in that it plugs in, and can be driven entirely as an EV, if commuting distances aren't great (I believe 25-50mile). I guess you could call it an EV if that's the limitation to it's use. But it becomes a HYBRID beyond those distances where the ICE kicks in and either charges the battery or adds to the motive power. There are other similar iterations from other manufacturers.

    Then you get the high-end vehicles (PORSCHE, FERRARI HONDA NSX etc) - which use Hybrid power in conjunction with their ICE to improve power, driveability and economy. Except for limited distances and speeds, these aren't EVs either.

    The term EV relates to vehicles which can be entirely driven by the electric battery/motor. Include TESLA, ZOE, LEAF, i-MIEV etc. i3 could be included as well, as they are an EV, and the Range Extender only provides recharging of the battery, not able to drive the vehicle.

    HYUNDAI IONIQ will blur the situation, as I believe they will eventually have 3 versions - a HYBRID, a PHEV and an EV version. VW is talking about the same - and by the end of the decade, add at least another dozen manufacturers.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yep, and I have predicted that the public will eventually stop distinguishing hybrids separately as those lines blur, and they will just become a car like an ICE one is.

    Was just pondering this earlier.
    The scale actually starts with a basic start/stop system, and some call such equipped cars as micro-hybrids. A regenerative braking system, and Mazada isn't the only one with a system for an ICE car, could be called the same. Combine the two on the same car, and you have a mild hybrid. Mazda also has an innovative start/stop system. It with i-Eloop would make a mild hybrid without a traction battery.

    Assist hybrids are mild hybrids in which the electric side can contribute more than the bare minimum of start/stop and regen braking. Once the electric side can propel the car without ICE help, it becomes a full hybrid.

    EREV, as the Volt is called by GM, is a subset of PHEV, which is a subset of hybrid.
     
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