1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Is there a way to charge 240watts??

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by kikik, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I have a battery generator and I bought the optional 12volt charger using the cigarette lighter. Usually I would charge it inside the house with regular outlet. But then I realized the socket in the Prius is 120watts. This generator draws 240 watts. Is there such a device where I can lower the intake to 120watts of course it will take longer and if there is such thing what is this called? Or can I possibly charge this directly from the 12v battery in the back while driving only. Or is this just too much to even think of charging it from the small 12v battery of my Prius and just chuck the idea?
    Thank you in advance for any input!
     
    antiglare likes this.
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I am not familiar with the term 'battery generator', so I am making this up. (Feel free to link to a battery generator website)

    The DC to DC converter in the Inverter is fused to produce up to 125 amps (some is needed to run the car) so if you draw more it will drain the 12 v battery or blow a fuse. That should give you about 1000 watts in Ready. Do not run the 'battery generator' when not in Ready.

    This YouTube video is about Gen 2, but your Gen 3 is similar, he discusses the DC to DC converter from about 15:10 to about 18:00.

     
    #2 JimboPalmer, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    kikik likes this.
  3. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    6,114
    4,040
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Something like this [​IMG]
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,123
    10,049
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    120 watts is just what standard 'cigarette lighter' sockets are supposed to allow. Anything more requires some form of heavy duty socket, wiring, and fusing. Some vehicles do come with such heavier duty ports, but never assume it without looking.
    Skip the former, do the later. Absent more info on your device, we don't know that the former is even possible.

    And as Jimbo pointed out, do it only while the car is in 'Ready', or you'll end up with a dead 12V battery.
     
  5. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Thank you so much for the quick reply!!
    My generator is this Kodiak Portable Solar Generator - Inergy Solar

    It's plenty for a weekend, we can charge 3 laptops, ipad and phones and even more no problem. But since summer vacation started I wanted to be able to charge it with the Prius for longer outings. I'm also considering using portable solar panels and just connect it while camping also. I don't want to deplete the Prius battery and then have to get towed or have no way to go out and buy a new battery especially if we are at a remote place etc. I think I would be better off if I looked into solar panels and connect the panels to the the generator so I won't be worrying my butt off thinking about the prius battery all the time while charging AND even when not charging thinking did I over do it?! Is Prius crying for help?! haha...I LOVE my Prius she's been so reliable and working so hard for us never complaining, always starting up even in below temperatures and high humid temps down in Florida. :)
     
  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I followed the link. You have a battery based inverter. A 1500W true sine inverter. Pretty nice. Looking at the datasheet it appears that you can charge it from 12v DC at a fixed 240W or from 110VAC at 60W or the 2 solar inputs.

    The Prius in READY mode will happily supply you 240W from the 12v (14.4v) inverter rail while consuming about an equal amount keeping the car alive. If you will be driving around for 5 hours per full discharge day then it is not a problem. The extra overhead is there anyways because you are using the car as a car. If you are parking it for 4.5 hours to charge this for 5 hours after driving a half hour, bit a of waste there, but also possible if that floats your boat.

    For 240W, the easiest solution is just install a cig lighter outlet in the back directly connected to the 12v battery. Personally I would one up that, I'd power that "power outlet" only when the car is on, so power that outlet via a relay that is coil triggered by the ignition.

    Or if you don't want to do any DIY, then buy a 100W inverter for peanuts at any gas station, walmart, amazon, whatever, and lose a bit of efficiency but it will "just work". That port by the passenger footwell is already only live with READY mode so no worry about draining the battery. That port can supply 60W, say 80W with terrible conversion efficiency, all day long without breaking a sweat.
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,843
    6,486
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    ^ Awesome post.

    Just to add- I have a similar device from an earlier generation, and once I thought to bring some solar panels to charge it.

    Once.

    It's just too many panels (or too large of a single unit) to haul for a "fun" camping trip. Sure, you can charge a little with a small panel, but it's really not worth it. Especially when you consider the value of a nice shady cool private campsite.

    kikik: I would wire up a 12v connector in your situation. It's how I've used mine for most of the ~10 years I've owned it.
     
    kikik likes this.
  8. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    I think I like the idea of putting a cigarette lighter in the back. It would be so easy to plug and unplug. Does that mean if I turn on the prius and then start packing the car by the time Im done packing I can plug it in? Or do I need to plug it in while I'm driving? So have 1 of my kids climb in the back and plug it in while it's moving??
     
  9. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Instead of the panels I was thinking of this


    It folds up and light weight 120watts! The thing is this generator is very light so I can move the solar panel AND the generator in the sun without us being in the sun. Maybe cover the generator with a cloth or something not sure if sun will damage the generator but both are portable.



    Hmm...I can't seem to link it, it's this on Amazon
    ACOPOWER 120W Portable Solar Panel, 12V Foldable Solar Charger with 10A LCD Charge Controller in Suitcase

    Dont need the charge controller and charger but something like this. The reviews seem to be good :)
    But I like the cigarette outlet in the back better if possible.
    Or maybe both so if we only drive 2 hours we can get rest of the charge with solar?
     
    #9 kikik, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The second that READY icon displays on the dash, that port will be live. You can leave it plugged into the retrofitted cig lighter port in the back and it will charge anytime it is READY. That simple. Driving versus parked makes zero difference, yay big hybrid inverter. READY versus not READY makes the difference. If you don't heed the advice of wiring in a relay so the cig lighter is only on when the car is READY, and forgot to disconnect it or leave it to charge with the car off, your battery will be dead in 1-2 hours and you'll be completely stranded in the woods.

    At high elevation on a cold day in direct sunlight at the perfect attack angle you may see 120W out of that. Lets say this perfect day happens, and you have nothing better to do while camping then hold the panel exactly facing the sun for 8 hours. No clouds in the sky either and everything is working at an impossible 100% efficiency. You'd get 120W * 8 hours = 960Wh of power. YAY! That's basically nothing for a lot of work. In normal situation, especially camping where you are generally surrounded by trees or shading devices, you may get 200Wh to 400Wh a day out of the panel. That would be equivalent to an hour charging from the Prius.

    I keep a foldable 30W solar panel with me that has 2 USB ports. I take it to the beach, spread it on the sand and charge up the phones, works great. I also use it on planes sometimes where there aren't power ports and my battery bank(s) are dead it slides into the window and can keep a charge high above the clouds. I also have 11KW of solar on one of my houses. So I am not against solar at all. But bringing a panel just to charge this big battery bank when you also have a car right there, seems silly to me. Bring it if you want, but you probably won't ever hook it up more than once.

    If you go serious camping where it is just you and bears for 2 weeks, no civilization in sight, then bring the panel! When we are up in the Yukon Territory you bet my backpack has backup power banks and cables and a solar charger for the phone. They are still finding people from the late 1800's that didn't bring their solar chargers... Your rescue part may be a couple centuries away. But if you are within screaming distance of civilization and space is limited, pack for convenience.
     
  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    If you wire up wrong, even for a second, you will do about $4000 of damage to the Prius. I would use a fused cigarette lighter interface rather than jumper cables, hard to do wrong once installed.
    www.amazon.com/dp/B01CUDHE5I

    As I read the manual, charging via the car's 12 volts: "Using a car’s DC charge port at 240W will fully recharge the Kodiak in approximately five (5) hours. Connect Car Charger to either 12V DC Universal Car Socket." will not draw over 20 Amps. The cable I found is rated at 20 Amps.
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1654/8245/files/Kodiak-User-Guide.pdf?12861600666068567460

    I tried to find a cover for the male cigarette lighter end, but my best search only found female sockets, you could just snip off the leads or used the connectors as covers: www.amazon.com/Cigarette-Lighter-TEQStone-Waterproof-Motorbike/dp/B018WZI0P6
     
  12. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Ok, I will try out the car charger first and see how it goes before committing on buying solar. But I like the idea that I can leave it out on my deck and charge it at home too without plugging it in the wall. It won't really matter how many hours it'll take because we don't use this at all while at home so it's just sitting there until we get an outage :) My son is REALLY interested in solar right now so just having a solar panel and letting him see that actual process might be educational. He's only tinkered with toys that move on solar and lights that charge with solar. He keeps taking it all apart and breaking every toy he gets though but seeing a big panel vs little tiny panels on cars I can see his eyes lighting up! lol

    I have no idea how to set this all up and don't really want to mess with electricity and screw everything up so I would rather hire an electrician to do everything. My question is do I call an electrician or do I bring it to a car shop? Or just have Toyota do it all for me?
    I'll print out the post you posted and I think they'll know what to do.

    Thank you again for answering all my questions!
     
  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,843
    6,486
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Don't let us discourage you from trying the solar set-up. Even if it doesn't make you much electricity, it helps as a conversation piece and it's wonderful as an educational tool.

    When I was young, my father gave me a single solar cell packaged as a science toy. I got rather a lot of benefit from it even if almost none of it was in the form of energy.

    You're going to want to find a hybrid specialist shop or automotive electrician. A regular electrician isn't going to know what to do. A traditional mechanic ought to do ok given that this is all within the 12v system.

    Toyota likely won't want any part of this because they only sell and support their own parts and they don't sell this as an accessory.
     
    kikik likes this.
  14. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Yes, I'm TERRIFIED of wiring it up wrong so I'll hire somebody to do it all, all I want to do is plug it in and out :D

    But what I don't understand is the first link you pasted it's a male outlet, are you suggesting to use this cable on the generator than the one that was supplied?

    Also the third link, is this cover for the socket from the generator? Or are you trying to say get a female cover for the Prius end?
    Sorry :X3: I'm not understanding what these are for....if it's for the generator end or prius end?
     
  15. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    One advantage of the tiny wires in the cord I showed, is that it can't carry much electricity, so it's ability to damage anything is limited. Jumper cables are huge. The advantage of an expert is that they can find a source that is only live when Ready.
    Automotive Electrical Maine - Google Search
    Yes in the manual I linked, they suggested using the (female) "12V DC Universal Car Socket" to charge from a car, so I show a male ended cord. The Kodiak supplied cord is for 110v A/C

    The male ended cord I suggested could come in contact with metal and drain the battery, so I tried to find a cover for it. I failed, but found a socket which would protect it if the leads on the socket were snipped off or covered.

    Searching their site, I find an available car charger cord, in the Prius you need to be sure it does not draw more than 10 amps. Inergy Kodiak Generator 12V Car Charger - Inergy Solar
     
    #15 JimboPalmer, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  16. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Yes, that is the 12v car charger I have. The generator has 3 inputs to charge, 1 from the AC, 1 from DC and one from solar.
    The car charging port is high current charging port vs the AC port is low current and that port can only draw 10amps/270watts. But the high current draws 30amps/600watts. But since the 12v cord is 240watts I'm thinking it's under 10 amps?

    Would something like this be good to plug in on the Prius side socket? So nothing gets in there?



    Or maybe this is better?

     
    #16 kikik, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,123
    10,049
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Note that 240 watts at 12V is 20 amps.

    But the too-brief descriptions there didn't give me enough information to answer my questions.
     
  18. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona
    Does that mean I can't charge it from the back battery?
     
  19. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    It means you can't charge it from the stock cigarette lighters in the car. (No scenario has you using the back battery without the car being Ready)

    You could have an automotive electrician install one that can handle 20 Amps

    www.amazon.com/dp/B075KF1K84
     
  20. kikik

    kikik Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    83
    44
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Persona

    Ok thank you, do you know what kind of relay I should get? This?



    Or is it the ones with wires already on it like this?