Is this stuff really taught in churches?

The underlying question of "Why is there Anything rather than Nothing?" is still interesting. I can tell that the meaning of it is (temporarily) sinking a little when I feel my brain locking up.

One possible answer, "because Nothing is unstable", may be correct, yet it seems unsatisfying :_>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 28 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]545262[/snapback]</div>

There are other "sciences" to consider like psychology and anthropology. These examine the physical, social, intellectual and SPIRITUAL (moral code, values, etc.) needs of humans. It is generally recognized that people need/want to obtain some balance in all four areas. I know at the outset I'm being simplistic with this "nutshell" approach. See the Psychology and Self Help sections of any bookstore for volumes of documentation on the subject.

One might be regarded as "mentally impaired" when he/she has not reached some sort of balance with these needs. Organized religion offers in many cases "one-stop shopping". If it's the only place a person shops, he/she severely limits his/her options. If a person only shops in the halls of academia, options are likewise limited. IMO there's room in society for those that limit their shopping and those that shop around. We're all victims of our life's experience.

I'm a seasoned manager. I like to measure things. Does God exist? From my view it can't be proved because you can't measure it. You can't see, hear, taste, touch or smell it. Does Love exist? You also can't measure, see, hear, etc., etc.--yet anyone that's experienced it knows it exists. Does God's Love exist? Well, some believe they have experienced it.

I doubt we will arrive at the proof of one or the others on this thread but I've enjoyed the discussion.

 

Then again, define "love"!
Love can be traced to an amino acid chain in the brain that attachs warm fuzzys to your mental file folder of that person/thing/etc. It can be chemically enhanced or blocked to alter someones feelings of love.

Emotions are only different states of minds that we have evolved to help us get through life. Love has a benefit to child rearing, and hence is a beneficial trait naturally selected for. Spirituality was at least beneficial to mankind in our past and may still be. Promoting community, allowing heirarchy within society, and hence easier projection of power to new areas.

 

Creationism would sound like a pretty odd assertion if it weren't wrapped up in the tenets of religion.

Assertions of the accuracy of scientific theory don't really "support" or "discredit" a series of rituals based upon a given belief system...do they...?

I mean, I'm not sure, but I don't think there's a religion...or whatever we might call it...based around "the practice of science"...is there?

Folks don't gather with other like minded folks to reaffirm their belief in science, and be cleansed of their transgressions by an actual scientist(??)...do they?

There is no equivalent of Baptism in the community of people who "practice" science, or other rituals which symbolize one's induction to that sect, are there?

That's the difference between science and Creationism. The mere fact that I feel the need to capitalize one, and not the other, should explain it all.

Or am I being naive?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(banjoman @ Nov 28 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]545350[/snapback]</div>

You can measure love. Brain tomography is one approach that comes to mind. Of course, I'm not sure what units you'd measure it in though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Nov 28 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]545334[/snapback]</div>

Wow, too many self-proclaimed experts on this topic for me. LOL at the closed minds to possibilities outside their individual understanding. I think the closest we'll get with open thinking (after all the name-calling and stereotypical generalizations "the number one thing taught in all churches around the world is hate." Been to all the churches areound the world?) is that both sides can be considered theories, lacking put-your-finger-on-it proof. Both operate on some level of faith in their truth.

 

I actually worked in a PET (Positron Emmision Tomography) scan unit doing research, so I have done some "brain measuring".

However, that measures blood flows to areas, but not specific molecules affecting specific memories. You can measure what illicits love better, but not how much they love it.

You could in theory measure the amount of the amino chains present in the blood flow, but that would be one's propensity to love. I can't think of a design to measure how much a person loves person X. That's determined by past experiences and there is no black box in the brain to allow past event measurement.

"the number one thing taught in all churches around the world is hate"
I certainly don't agree with that. I've stated in other threads, religion does a lot of good, esp. on the local level. Even if it's not my cup of tea, I'm happy for people who find benefit from religion.
There are zealots on both sides of the discussion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Nov 28 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]545151[/snapback]</div>

I can just picture it: The apostles are sitting around playing pinochle now that Jesus is gone, when Mary Magdalene comes running up. "The tomb! It's open! The stone! It's gone!" Peter says, "Yeah, sure. This broad is hysterical." When suddenly Jesus himself appears, complete with holes in his hands and feet, his stare vacant, and his voice expressionless: "Brains! Brains!" He jumps on Pete and chomps into his head, to the screams of everyone present. Before long, all the apostles are living dead, running around the countryside killing everyone they find and eating their brains.

Maybe all Christians are actually zombies.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Nov 28 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]545334[/snapback]</div>

Not all. There are five or six churches in the world (out of thousands in total) that do not teach hate. Hey, TJ does not teach hate. And he's not alone. He's just in a very small minority.

 

My son refers to Easter Sunday as Zombie Jesus Day.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Nov 28 2007, 07:43 AM) [snapback]545151[/snapback]</div>

Which is the way most things are. Reality is very subject to one's view. I see things as I see them, some folks see things as they see them. Either can be real. To a blind man, white is black. His reality is that he can't see a difference, so either black or white, it does not matter. Either can be real to a blind man.

If God does not exist to you, but does to me, then my reality, is, well, mine. You don't have to have it. It's what Christ would have wanted. He would have wanted you to choose your reality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Nov 28 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]545433[/snapback]</div>

My understanding was that it's possible to measure activity, not as blood flow but as actual neuronal activity (like measuring theta waves in Buddhist monks). You can measure an intensity and then, based on the regions of the brain that are active, you have some idea what kind of emotional response it was. My understanding is that the brain doesn't differentiate between memory and current events. The same neuronal pathways are stimulated by similar events (for example, thinking about passing a soccer ball will elicit the same response as actually performing the task).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ 2007 11 28 15:11) [snapback]545455[/snapback]</div>

There's reality, and then there are perceptions of reality. Yes, we all see things differently, but those are our perceptions, inevitably coloured by our mindset, our assumptions, and our experiences. Reality, in the deepest meaning of the concept, is not altered by what we think it is. Not that I'm not denying you your perceptions, but I would argue that religion is a perception, and not a deep, capital R Reality.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 28 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]545455[/snapback]</div>

TJ, you once had a gun fired at you. Had it been aimed better, burying its hot sharp bullet in you instead of the wall, would you have blithely regarded the reality of that searing spear of lead in your gut as "subjective?"

How we might interpret reality depends on vantage point, thickness of rose colored glasses, etc., but reality itself is hard and merciless as that bullet, and affects us whether we choose to acknowledge it or not.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Nov 28 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]545459[/snapback]</div>

And yet we know the difference between a memory and an event that we are experiencing at the moment. A memory of a kiss is nice. A kiss that's actually happening is nicer. And as the memory fades the emotions it stimulates become weaker.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 28 2007, 06:05 PM) [snapback]545418[/snapback]</div>

Somehow, I feel like you have just given birth...to a dangerous idea. Watch, and next week, sometime, someone will have take what you've imagined in this post, and make their own reality of it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 28 2007, 07:17 PM) [snapback]545509[/snapback]</div>

Yes but you've added external stimuli to the mix. But you're right there's a difference. We wouldn't do to well if we couldn't distinguish (perhaps that's what's wrong with some people).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 28 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]545418[/snapback]</div>

Scientology? Oops! My apologies trashing this thread.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Nov 28 2007, 07:48 PM) [snapback]545497[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps I would have regarded that reality as subjective, given my current status.

I am, after all, a cancer survivor, who just found out he has zinc poisoning, because, (now follow me here; it gets long), the dentures I wear, due to my dentist having to remove over eight teeth to, remove the cancerous growth in my mouth, thus now I wear a denture, and to secure that denture, I use Fixodent, which has zinc, and now, that very zinc has proven to give me zinc poisoning.

I find it all bitterly ironic, since the cancer in the first place can be traced back to a botched dental procedure given me over 15 years ago, by a now deceased dentist, so I can't even really be mad at him for his gross neglect.

How did I find this out? Well, recently, a man who had been using Super Poligrip filed suit against GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturers of the product. The plaintiff alleges that the undisclosed ingredient Zinc, in the denture cream has caused him permanent damage and that the denture cream has poisoned him.

The permanent damage is a nerve disorder called Neuropathy.

Reported by News 8 in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, Doctors began to “think outside the box†when they could not determine what caused the man’s Neuropathy. After weeks of medical detective work, University of Texas Southwestern Dr. Bhushan discovered what he believed was wrong.

"It was literally Zinc poisoning," Bhushan said.

Zinc poisoning was at least what two doctors have linked to putting denture adhesives like Poligrip and Fixodent on dentures. Like most denture adhesives, Poligrip doesn't list ingredients on the label and the Food & Drug Administration does not require them to do so.

However, News 8 recently reported that they learned the denture paste does contain Zinc, which is used as an odor blocker and bonding agent. In addition to being swallowed, Zinc can be absorbed through the skin or the gums. News 8 inquiries revealed another popular denture adhesive, Fixodent, also contained Zinc. I use Fixodent.

Walking down stairs is a practiced skill these days for Jackson. "Like I said, my feet are a combination of numb and hypersensitive at the same time," he said. In fact, his whole body started deteriorating a few years ago. " felt like an electric current going down my back, [and] then it started working down my leg," Jackson said. "It's like my legs right now are topically numb." He's been told the nerve damage he suffered from Zinc poisoning is permanent.

See, that is exactly how my legs feel. Wonderful. Oh, and get this:
Zinc is an intestinal irritant, and the first sign of zinc poisoning is usually intestinal distress. This includes vomiting, stomach cramps, diarrhea, and nausea.

All of which I have had over the last few years. Many times. A lot, in fact. Further symptoms of zinc poisoning are low blood pressure (check), urine retention (check), joint pain (check), and a metallic taste in the mouth (check).

Sorry. I did not mean to distract the thread. But it all has to do with this:

My reality is filled with pain, and it's brought on by men of science, who have in more then one way, messed up my body. Science is heavily involved in medical procedures, in development of things like Fixodent, and science could be very well blamed by me, if I wanted to. But I don't blame them. I forgive them; I wish them well. I wish them peace.

Believing in Christ, that reality has brought me a peace to my mind, at the very least, and for me, that reality is better then the one my body is trapped in.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Nov 28 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]545459[/snapback]</div>

Interesting. Anecdotally I remember a friend's father who stuttered except when he was praying with the family at dinner or in their church meetings. At the time there was a news story about brain wave studies. They (scientists) found during prayer the part of the brain which is involved in focusing attention and concentration is more active. It produced the kinds of brain waves that are associated with calmness, focus, and creativity. I made the connection that that was why the stuttering man spoke fine while praying.

There is a spiritual need in humans that can be very rewarding when addressed. God or no god, we are built to call out mentally to someone and, in that state of mind we find creative answers to our problems.