1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

It's Here! Lexus New RZ 450e

Discussion in 'Lexus Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Apr 20, 2022.

Page 2 of 3
  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Some interesting info from Lexus Europe on the RZ 450e on DIRECT4. During RANGE it reverts to using the rear motor only. Which leads me to wonder how it differentiates between RANGE and STRAIGHT DRIVING? RANGE is listed as low-torque but technically so isn't STRAIGHT DRIVING.

    Driving Condition TYPICAL (FR : RR) MAXIMUM (FR : RR) AIM
    1 STARTING OFF 60 : 40 20 : 80 Torque transfer to rear to enhance traction and stability
    2 STRAIGHT DRIVING 70 : 30 40 : 60 Torque transfer to optimise straight line stability and improve efficiency
    3 TURNING 75 : 25 20 : 80 More torque to the rear to enhance traction in low friction situations. During cornering more torque to the rear to give confident line tracing and good acceleration feel when exiting the corner.
    4 RANGE MODE 0 : 100 50 : 50 In low-torque driving only the rear motor is used to maximise driving range.


    HOW DIRECT4 ENHANCES LEXUS RZ DRIVING ENJOYMENT

    editors note I replaced USUAL with TYPICAL and UP TO with MAXIMUM for a better table layout.
     
    #21 drash, Jan 23, 2023
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Maybe there’s a range drive mode?
     
    #22 Tideland Prius, Jan 23, 2023
    Trollbait likes this.
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,751
    11,328
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I'm interpreting Range mode to be a driver selectable mode like Sport or Eco. It is listed in the table to denote that torque distribution likely supercedes the three normal mode ones.

    Didn't double check, but I believe the front motor is the motor used in the FWD bZ 4X instead of using a the downsized one for AWD. The rear one is what the 4X and Solterra have in the back. This means the Lexus doesn't have the same power and torque output at each axle. Being less powerful, Range using the rear leads to less power available than the other mode.
     
    #23 Trollbait, Jan 23, 2023
    drash likes this.
  4. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'd assume it would be part other drive modes like Eco or it may actually be like @Trollbait said be a specific drive mode. Watched a few videos but nothing came up at all about drive modes and looking at the interior pictures there is a MODE button on the steering wheel but that may be like my NXh and changes the audio source. It's in a different spot, mine is on the left near all the audio buttons. Their MODE button is on the right by other drive buttons. I have a specific drive mode dial that selects between Sport, Normal and Eco above the shifter. I looked at videos of the UX 300e and they have a mode selector on the right of the MID behind the steering wheel (kind of like the BMW i3's shifter). Could find no evidence of a similar mode selector on the RZ.
     
    #24 drash, Jan 23, 2023
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,751
    11,328
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Test drive review: 2023 Lexus RZ 450e steers for China, and a US niche
    "RZs will have four drive modes including Normal, Sport, Eco, and Range. The first two are what one expects, but the Eco and Range mode will be confusing for many. Eco mode will only change the auxiliary systems such as the climate control. Range mode will also make changes to the powertrain to extract the maximum range from the battery pack."

    They were driving prototypes with the mode selection disabled, so that is all the info on them there.
     
    #25 Trollbait, Jan 23, 2023
    Tideland Prius and drash like this.
  6. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    US Prices for the RZ 450e have been released.
    It's Here! Lexus New RZ 450e | Page 2 | PriusChat

    Model 2023 2023 Premium 2023 F Sport 2023 Luxury 2023 Ultra-Luxury
    1 RZ 450e Premium AWD (18 in. wheel) $59650
    2 RZ 450e Premium AWD (20 in. wheel) $60890
    3 RZ 450e Luxury $65150
     
    #26 drash, Feb 3, 2023
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    That's a lot less than $81,000 CAD for the top model. I guess there are options to be had?
     
    #27 Tideland Prius, Feb 4, 2023
  8. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Oh I'm sure. Then again we don't even know what's in the trims they list. Probably the details will be released in Chicago along with the Grand Highlander. Supposedly, the RZ 450e is to be released in about the same time frame as the Prius Prime. The factory where they make the Crown, bZ4X and Solterra were down for the 2nd and 3rd of February, this Thursday and Friday. I'd hazard to guess to start sharing the line with the RZ 450e. Since it'll be targeted for Europe mostly, it'll be as rare as the NX 450h+ and for Canada as rare as any Toyota plug-in. ;)
     
    #28 drash, Feb 4, 2023
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  9. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No official Product Specs to download yet, but it's live on the Lexus site: 2023 Lexus RZ - Luxury Electric SUV | Lexus.com

    Some notable specs:
    • 34.9 cu. ft. (988 L) of cargo space behind the rear seats - 2nd only to the 2023 RAV4 Hybrid's 37.6 cu. ft. (1065 L) in the Toyota lineup even though it's slightly smaller than the RX. The bZ4X lists cargo area as 27.7 cu. ft. (784 L) and it's made on the same line but is shorter by 4.6"
    • they list total power at 313 hp o_O even though the front and rear motors are maximum 150/80 kW (201/107 hp)
    • 7 kW L2 charger
    • 150 kW L3 charger
    • 220 miles (354 km) Manufacturer estimate range on the 18" wheel Premium, 196 miles (315 km) on Luxury trim with 20" wheels
    • Heated and Ventilated Front Seats and Heated Steering Wheel across all trims.
    • Even though it has a MID like the bZ4X and Prius above the steering wheel, you can still get a HUD. Standard on Luxury, part of the Technology Package on the Premium trim.
    • 5.0 seconds 0 - 60 mph
    • Turning circle is 36.8 ft which is smaller than the bZ4X at 40.0 ft.
    • Radiant front leg heater is standard on the Luxury and optional on the Premium.
    • Premium weighs 100 lbs (45.4 kg) more than the bZ4X Limited AWD (gets 225 miles range EPA) at 4,464 lbs (2020.3 kg)
    Options:
    Digital Rearview Mirror $200*
    Illuminated front badge $200*
    Radiant front knee heater (Premium) $175*
    Dynamic Sky™ panorama glass roof (Luxury) $550*
    20-in split-10-spoke alloy wheels with Black and machined finish (Premium) $1,240*
    20-in split-10-spoke alloy wheels with Dark Premium Metallic finish (Luxury) 0*

    Packages:
    Technology Package (Premium)
    Cold Weather Package
     
    #29 drash, Feb 7, 2023
  10. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    #30 drash, Feb 8, 2023
  11. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Europe had a Dynamic Press Launch of the RZ 450e.
    DYNAMIC PRESS LAUNCH OF THE NEW ALL-ELECTRIC LEXUS RZ
    Some odd and not so odd info from that presser.
    • Different size tires for the front (235/60R18) and back (255/55R18). 20" sizes are 235/50R20 front, 255/45R20 back
    • Rear track has been widen to 1627 mm, +15 mm over the front track
    • WLTP combined range is 395 km (245 miles) for the 20" tires and 435 km (270 miles) for the 18" tires
    • WLTP combined efficiency is 16.8 kWh/100km for the 18" tires and 18.7 kWh/100 km for the 20" tires
    • Battery state of charge is 8% when 0 km range is reached
    • The battery is liquid cooled using the same LLC coolant as the air conditioner
    • The battery is heated, if enabled and needed, via the heater (which of course is a heat pump) in the air conditioning system
    • Comes with a three phase 11 kW L2 charger. When hooked to a single phase L2 charger it drops down to 7 kW
    • Exclusive Range mode reduces power consumption, restricts output power as well as vehicle speed and shuts off the A/C. Concentrates using only the rear e-Axle unless the driver requests more power and/or torque
    • Eco mode uses a slower accelerator pedal mapping and suppresses air conditioning
    • Drivers can select deceleration strengths via the paddle shifter
    • Low drag coefficient of 0.263 Cd
    • The One Motion Grip steer-by-wire (aka the yoke steering wheel) is still under development and will be an option starting in 2025. Apparently it will have its own power supply and electronics fail-safe in case of main system failure
    • Cabin air quality is maintained using the nanoe X™ technology
    • Behind the rear seats, cargo space is 522 L (18.4 cu. ft. European measurement - US measurement is 34.9 cu. ft. or 988 L) and behind the front seat to the ceiling is 1451 L (51.2 cu. ft.)
    • Another safety feature has been added that, when enabled, automatically turns on the hazard lights when a vehicle is detected in the rear with a closing speed between 30 and 100 km/h
    As for the tires US just says 18" and 20" when you go to build it on lexus.com. Sounds like Range mode also reduces the output of the radiant heaters and no specifics on how much speed is reduced. Kind of sounds like what BMW did on the i3 with their Eco and Eco Pro+ mode. Also sounds like Range mode is equivalent to PiP EV mode were you have no heat. As for that added safety feature, hopefully nobody confuses the hazard lights with brake checking. I know for certain in Atlanta that would be on a lot. :ROFLMAO:
     
    #31 drash, Feb 20, 2023
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,751
    11,328
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The i3 had wider tires in the back. Narrower is better for air drag, but I think they went with wider in the rear for acceleration traction. I've heard owners have put the front sized tires on the rear of their i3s. The width difference on the Lexus is less than an inch; the front and rear rims are probably the same size. I'm guessing they had to push the rear wheels out a smidge to ensure the wider tires clear everything.

    I like the hazard light safety feature.
     
    #32 Trollbait, Feb 21, 2023
    drash likes this.
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah. ID.4 runs a staggered setup as well - 235 width fronts, 255 width rears. Like Trollbait said, it's for acceleration (rear) as well as range (front). I prefer a square setup myself for even tyre wear.
     
    #33 Tideland Prius, Feb 22, 2023
    drash likes this.
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,751
    11,328
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The i3 and ID.4 are RWD though. The RZ is a FWD bias with the more powerful motor in the front. Weigh shifts to the rear on acceleration, but how much benefit are the slightly wider tires there for the car's performance? Could it be more for when using Range mode? I suspect that will try to limit the front motor's use.

    The bZ4X and Solterra have the 235 wide tires all around.
     
    #34 Trollbait, Feb 22, 2023
    drash and Tideland Prius like this.
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Canada apparently just made the "all-inclusive" price a new requirement (previously, only Quebec required it).

    So, the RZ450e Executive costs $84,225
    Genesis just released their pricing for the eGV70 Prestige at $84,150.

    The RZ's benefit is the lower two trims (Signature with a $68,225 starting price and the Luxury package). But comparing top trim to top trim, the GV70 wins out on performance and charging. Interior is a toss up but I'd give the nod to Lexus for interior materials and the nod to Genesis for design.
     
    #35 Tideland Prius, Feb 24, 2023
  16. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Not just a wider tire in rear, but the RZ 450e also has a wider track in the rear as well. Most of the maximums on all of their Driving Conditions favor the rear e-Axle, so maybe they are targeting performance. Seems like response is quicker to the rear e-Axle and the front catches up to provide a smooth transition to FWD. We'll know more when more driving reviews are out. I'll wait for the Autogefül review, since he pans most of the Lexus rides.
     
    #36 drash, Feb 25, 2023
  17. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Official launch of the RZ 450e in North America.
    THE NEXT CHAPTER OF ELECTRIFIED: THE ALL-NEW 2023 LEXUS RZ 450e - Lexus USA Newsroom

    Specs: https://lexus-cms-media.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2023-RZ-450e-Specs.pdf

    Canadian: THE NEXT CHAPTER OF ELECTRIFIED: THE ALL-NEW 2023 LEXUS RZ 450e | Lexus Canada

    Lexus RZ 450e has been pretty much analyzed from the Japanese and European web sites, but now the embargo is off for North America. No real surprises but a couple of key points:
    • Lexus made a point to say the battery is water heated and cooled. Also that it is made by Prime Planet Energy & Solutions (PPES) which is a Panasonic and Toyota company.
    • EPA range on the 18" wheels is 220 miles (354 km) , 196 miles (315 km) if you go with trims that get the 20" wheels
    • 0 - 60 mph takes 5.0 seconds
    • Panoramic roof get the Dynamic Sky™ electric shade similar to the Star Gaze™ on the Venza
    • Lexus US and Canada calls the steering yoke Steer by Wire. Available at a later date.
    • SAE Cargo is 23.74 cu. ft. (672 L) behind rear seats, 55.57 cu. ft. (1574 L) with rear seats folded.
    • DCFC is 150 kW, L2 is 6.6 kW
    • RZ guests will also be the first to experience the all-new Lexus Reserve program, which provides an exclusive complimentary rental service to anyone who purchases/leases the 2023 RZ 450e. The dealer-based Lexus Reserve program awards guests with 30 complimentary reserve days to be used over the course of three years from the date of purchase/lease.
    edited to reflect limited complimentary rental service - more info on the Lexus website. You can rent another type of vehicle for long trips.

    Reviews:
    Hint: All reviewers prefer the 18" wheels. Thomas at Autogefühl is obsessed with the yoke. Net battery size is 64 kWH out of 71.4 kWh.


     
    #37 drash, Mar 13, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  18. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,457
    1,235
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Good in depth write up on the Lexus Steer-by-Wire including interviews with the engineer. What they haven't done is integrate their 4 wheel steering found in the Lexus LC 500h (Active Rear Steering) and Lexus RX 500h (Dynamic Rear Steering) with the steer-by-wire.

    How Toyota Is Making the Case for Steer-By-Wire
     
    #38 drash, Mar 20, 2023
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
     
    #39 Tideland Prius, Mar 26, 2023
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,837
    16,073
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, I had a chance to sit in one today (no test drives as they're all customer cars). I came away disappointed because I feel like Lexus could've done so much more. Here are the bullet points. I sat in the Executive trim

    Good:
    • Great seating position for those who want that "SUV" height. You sorta slide in but maybe also slightly step up (esp. if you're shorter). Seating position is good (none of that high flat floor issue that plague some other EVs, like my EV6)
    • Good sized steering wheel
    • Great IP resolution and display
    • Love love love the ultrasuede material on the seats, door panels and even the rear armrest
    • Love the faux leather on the door arm rest and centre console lid. It feels quite good.
    • The faux wood on the centre console isn't bad either. Too bad there isn't some on the door panel. I will say, the Polestar wood trim feels better (I think it's real too)
    • Spacious cabin front and rear
    • Good rear seating position with quality seat material coverage (ultrasuede covers the seat sides all the way to the bottom as well as the entire rear armrest is ultrasuede instead of NuLuxe).
    • Digital latch super easy to use. Actually the interior ones are more intuitive. The exterior ones feel weird if you don't exactly position your hands over the latch (cause then you're relying on the few fingers to press the release).
    • Good sized trunk area and fully finished
    • Good, deep underfloor storage that's fully finished (i.e. not a plastic bin but covered in the mousefur)
    • Comes with all the small items you'd expect (cargo net, cargo mat, bi-fold tonneau cover, L1 charging cable etc... stuff that other manufacturers are starting to remove to cut costs)
    • Love the electrostatic panoramic roof (only available in Executive trim in Canada. Luxury trim gets a normal pano roof). The electrostatic feature negates the need for sunshades, increasing the headroom
    • Quite aerodynamic despite having almost 2" more ground clearance than my EV6 (same Cd of 0.29 as my EV6)
    • Visibility out front is good, side is good, rear is good. Rear quarter is so-so with a large C-pillar
    • Heated front Lexus emblem (no more slush on the radar)
    • The large 14" MFD is clear and sharp
    • The temperature dial has a nice feel when rotating it
    Bad:
    • Only the base Signature trim (18" wheels) get all season tyres. The 20" rims (Signature w/ Luxury Package, Executive) have summer tyres (Dunlop Sport Maxx). Odd choice for an SUV that isn't meant to be sporty
    • Radiant heater isn't standard so you're forced to choose between longer range with the base 18" wheels or a radiant heater but with 20" rims and you'll have to buy separate winter tyres anyway. (356km vs 315km)
    • No reclining rear seats (it's optional in some gas competition and I think it's available on the NX and RX)
    • Remote climate with the key fob is subscription based :cautious:
    • Acoustic glass is only available on the Executive trim (yes, that even includes the front door glass that we have on the Prius - it's optional and only if you pay $84k)

    Ugly
    • Too many Toyota plastics. The overhead switches for the DOOR light switch and the pano roof electrostatic function are cheap, wobbly plastic with a nasty "clicking" sound like you'd find in a Yaris. Or like the Gen 2 Prius' radio buttons if you guys recall that.
    • Overhead assist grips have a nasty feeling rubberised grip instead of NuLuxe wrapped (or ultrasuede wrapped)
    • The window switches are tiny and don't feel as nice as a Lexus
    • The lower door panel is hard scratchy plastic (all doors)
    • The rear upper door topper is hard plastic. I might let it slide on a CT200h but anything more expensive than that should have nicer injection moulded plastics, especially to complement the soft ultrasuede and especially when the vehicle costs $84,000 Canadian!

    Base price is $68,225 before taxes (Canada now requires all-inclusive pricing on all vehicles - about time. BMW Canada is charging a ridiculous $3,000 for Freight/PDI and dealers charging whatever they can get away with above that. At least now their prices will show that it's higher than the competition). It doesn't qualify for the federal EV rebate but it may qualify for some provincial rebates (base model only). The Luxury Package is $8,600. The Executive trim is $84,225.

    I'm sorry but at that price, I'll be looking elsewhere. This might explain why the majority of the RZ450e on the lot are the base model. I think Lexus knows what they expect their sales splits will be. Plus, the base price is only $7,000 more (including the $5,000 federal rebate than the bZ qualifies for) than a fully loaded bZ4X XLE AWD w/ Technology Package and since they're no longer taking any orders, I suspect a few people just ended up putting deposits for the RZ instead.

    Anyway, lots of good points and the interior definitely looks classier than the bZ but unfortunately once you start digging into the individual pieces, there's a lot of cost cutting involved and it's not the Lexus we grew up with.
     
    #40 Tideland Prius, Mar 29, 2023
    drash and Trollbait like this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 3