John Kerry

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by dbermanmd, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

    What do you think now that he did not apologize to the troops? Did he insult them. In my opinion after watching the video of him saying what he did above and reading the quote again and again - he should apologize. There is NO doubt in my opinion he referenced American troops - and NOT any other person or group of people.

    Maybe Kerry is reacting to the events of two years ago?

    McCain I believe is on record as of today calling for Kerry to apologize.

    All I can say is that I am thankful Kerry will never ever be President.
     
  2. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    It sure sounds like he's dispariging the troops, for that he should apologize.

    Being a combat vetran I'd be very surprised if he meant it to sound that way. I'd bet he was trying to tie education (or lack of) in to the current leadership in DC but it didn't come out that way at all.
     
  3. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 02:50 PM) [snapback]341447[/snapback]</div>
    I would suggest that perhaps he was speaking metaphorically. Not about an individual, but about the Country as a whole. In that light, what I take this to mean is: either we, as a Nation, can "be smart" and "do well" or we can "...get stuck in Iraq."

    Mr. Berman, I might suggest that, again, your excessive fear and feelings of persecution might be coloring your inference, not Kerry's implication.
     
  4. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(San_Carlos_Jeff @ Oct 31 2006, 03:06 PM) [snapback]341460[/snapback]</div>
    Agree - it sure sounded like a DIRECT attack on US Soldiers. Even McCain is calling for an apology. Whatever he meant to say was fine and well. What he did say was terrrrible.

    And I am not sure what he really meant to say. Kerry is like most politicians power hungry - being at the microphone is like a drug induced high for him. As they say, in vino veritas - I would hate to think the corolary is true for Kerry - in the microphone the facts.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 31 2006, 03:17 PM) [snapback]341467[/snapback]</div>
    You can suggest anything. You are either ignoring the obvious or viewing his factual statement through jaundiced eyes. Did you actually view the video of him putting his foot in his mouth? The silence that overcame the crowd there immediately was impressive - they knew he said something dumb (again).

    Instead of apologizing straight forward for what might have been a misperception, Kerry went into attack mode. This will further hamper the Dems one week from today. A war hero shooting himself and his comrades in the foot again - is this history repeating itself - you would think he knew how to handle his weapon of mass destruction - his mouth.
     
  5. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    I'll agree that it came off badly, but come on, you can give the man some credit. As a politician i highly doubt he intended to say anything against the troops themselves. instead, i think he was attempting to point out that Bush is a moron who got himself, and this country, stuck in Iraq.

    It's interesting, because you never posted a link to the video, so none of us can "hear" this silence you speak of, we only have the quote to go off of (i'm sorry, but i prefer to research my own news, not have it spoon fed to me by someone with a political agenda over the TV). from the quote you provided, it appears that he was speaking off the cuff, and may not have realized how his statement came off.
     
  6. tleonhar

    tleonhar Senior Member

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  7. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 03:37 PM) [snapback]341477[/snapback]</div>
    I, too, wish you'd have posted a link to the video. And I'm not a big Kerry fan, now or ever...but for the life of me I can't realistically believe that what was said carried the meaning that he intended...nor can I conceive that most reasonable people would conclude that he made a statement which attacks our soldiers.

    Mr. Berman, perhaps *you* should consider giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    That said, I do wish that Kerry (regardless of what he meant) would have offered a clarification. Any pol worth his/her weight should know how easily a remark like this can be spun out of control.
     
  8. juniper

    juniper New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct, 02:50 PM) [snapback]341447[/snapback]</div>
    He was not referring to the troops. He was referring to Bush.
     
  9. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juniper @ Oct 31 2006, 10:32 PM) [snapback]341703[/snapback]</div>
    It was clear to me from the beggining he was referring to Bush. I guess I think of Bush as a moron already so I was predisposed for the joke.
     
  10. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 02:50 PM) [snapback]341447[/snapback]</div>
    Please, research the context of that remark and it will be obvious that he was referring to Bush, not the troops.
     
  11. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    Everyone should know I am NOT a fan of Kerry, but in this situation, I buy his point that he was referring to Bush. I am actually ashamed of the GOP for jumping all over this. I hope it backfires on them.

    We have ALL said things that "sound" bad. While I would expect prepared speeches to not have this, extemporaneous speeches should always be given the benefit of the doubt.
     
  12. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    My take and one of his explanations’ before he flip-flopped to a more believable one, is that it was joke gone badly. If that is the case he should at least apologize for any offense taken and this truly tasteless joke. But IMHO not for calling soliders stupid as I am sure he did not mean that. For the life of me I can see no way to make this joke or political slight funny or apropos to the situation. But that’s just me I guess. <_<

    Wildkow

    p.s. Hehe, if it wasn't the height of the political season this would be a non-story. Talk about nookieular stoopidity! :lol:
     
  13. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    I don't buy it! :angry:

    Even if he did flub a prepared joke, why couldn't he have at least said something like, 'if any soldier misinterpreted that joke, and thusly my intent, and personally felt a demoralizing effect, for that, I am truly sorry.'

    But noooooooo. He goes on to bury himself deeper in his doodo by saying. “Let me make it crystal clear. As crystal clear as I know how. I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and his broken policy. If anyone owes our troops in the fields an apology, it is the president and his failed team, and the Republican majority in the congress that has been willing to stamp – rubber stamp – policies that have done injury to our troops and their families . . .â€

    What an arrogant bastard. He's too perfect to admit a mistake . . . a misstatement. It's YOUR fault if you did not get his joke.

    Rubber stamp?
    On October 11, 2002, he placed his rubber stamp on H.J.RES.114 to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.J.RES.114:
    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll...;vote=00237#top

    Then later he has the gall to say, “We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today," Kerry said Wednesday on ABC’s “Good Morning America.†"Knowing there was no imminent threat to America, knowing there were no weapons of mass destruction, knowing there was no connection of Saddam Hussein to al Qaeda, I would not have gone to war. That's plain and simple."

    But on Aug. 9, 2004, when asked if he would still have gone to war knowing Saddam Hussein did not possess weapons of mass destruction, Kerry said: “Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have.â€

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/...ain646435.shtml

    Thank you Kerry. Thank you for showing your true colors. YOU RUBBER STAMPED!!!
    “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.†Yep, there's an Ivy League intellect at work for you. :p

    A javascript link to Kerry's “joke†is in the below CNN article.
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/31/ker...cain/index.html
    Unfortunately the CNN commentator cuts in and ruins the silence after the laughter subsides. But more telling are the faces of the kids in the background after he told his “joke.†:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: [classic! :lol: ]
     
  14. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Nov 1 2006, 02:51 AM) [snapback]341774[/snapback]</div>
    After viewing the video a dozen times there is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that Kerry's statement was NOT a botched joke about President Bush. Being old enough to remember Vietnam and the draft lottery I believe his statement is a DIRECT reference to that time period where those seeking higher education were able to get deferments for military service - those who did not were "stuck" going to Nam.

    In ANY event, Kerry should have instantly offered an apology to anyone that "might" have "misinterpreted" his "botched joke". There is NO way he can honestly believe that he did not even "UNintentionally" insult tens if not hundreds of thousands of Americans. At the very least it shows a COMPLETE lack of sensitivity and political myopia.

    This however raises a larger issue. Are the Democrats becoming the anti-American military party? Just a few examples from the top of my head:

    Dick Durbin accusing American soldiers of acting like Nazi's!
    John Kerry accusing American soldiers of war crimes during his service in Vietnam.
    John Kerry accusing American soldiers of "terrorizing" Iraqi civilians in the middle of the night.
    Charlie Rangel threatening to cut funding to US troops in Iraq if the Dems gain control of the Senate.

    I believe Americans are questioning if the Democrats can be trusted being in charge of the American military.
     
  15. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    John Kerry responds:

    “If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

    The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.â€
     
  16. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    If he'd meant to criticize the troops, which he never would as any reasonable individual would know, he would have specified them in his comment "you end up a soldier in Iraq". When he said "If you don't, you end up in Iraq" is clearly a comment at Bush carrying on his attitude of criticizing Bush's intelligence...or lack there of.

    That said, I do think Kerry should immediately have come out with a blunt statement saying "I'm sorry if I've offended any soldier or vet. I meant to criticize president Bush only and absolutely do not believe our soldiers are in Iraq because they're not smart. I respect our soldiers, just not our President."
     
  17. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid New Member

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    :lol:

    I love the way the Bush hata's actually defend Kerry in the face of an unambiguous, egregious, comment!

    OMG, I'm still cracking up...!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

    dberman, GREAT litmus test for BIAS!!!
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Nov 1 2006, 08:00 AM) [snapback]341827[/snapback]</div>
    Yea, for your bias...you choose to believe something totally against any logic, historical background, or plain common sense. Kerry's shown respect for and served as a soldier. Kerry doesn't respect or like Bush. His comments, taken in context are clearly not attacks on the soldiers but on Bush. They are abiguous.

    But, as said, b/c of that abiguity he should apologize for not being more clear and reiterate his respect for and support of the troops.
     
  19. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    Regardless. The ones getting troops KILLED unnecessarily are Bush and Co. And for that there is no way to sufficiently apologize.
     
  20. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Nov 1 2006, 11:26 AM) [snapback]341840[/snapback]</div>
    Gee, you could say that about any President, during any war in our history....
     
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