Juddering when accelerating

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by JayD, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. JayD

    JayD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Whilst acclerating the car starts to shudder/ rattle between 18-22/23mph anything above and below is fine. If you hard accelerate from 0 it's fine.

    The car has done about 150,000miles+, spark plugs were recently changed, egr pipe was cleaned, egr valve was replaced and problem persisted. A temp cover was placed on the egr pipe which made the problem go but engine light come on.

    What could I check? I'm thinking to clean manifold/ throttle body, unfortunately don't have a torque wrench so haven't done so yet anything else?
     
  2. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    2,207
    886
    0
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Wild guess, but how about reading the code(s) behind the CEL?
    Autozone, other chain service stations, Midas, etc, will read codes for free. However, they are not using Techstream, so many codes are often not read correctly or at all.

    Teachstream is software written for Toyota, to read the Toyota family (Lexus, Toyota, Scion, Daihatsu (JDM)), to read ALL codes. Hacked copies available at Amazon/eBay, $25-$35. Laptop required; ideally Windows 32bit (XP or 7), and on a spare junker laptop. Many posts on install help on the Internet; do a search.
     
    LTMafia likes this.
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    45,988
    32,843
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Seems like a lot of attention was paid to the EGR system. Was it badly clogged? How about the EGR "cooler", the rectangular component with the coolant hoses, between the EGR valve and the exhaust manifoltd: it was replaced with the valve?

    upload_2016-10-30_10-58-6.png
     
    Robert Holt and JayD like this.
  4. JayD

    JayD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Will try put the block in and read the code, I'm certain it'll show a EGR issue as I will be blocking the pipe.

    According to the mechanic (joys of not taking to a dealership), he was assuming it was the egr valve, but after valve was replaced and issue persisted he just put back the old valve. So the cooler wasn't actually touched.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    45,988
    32,843
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Someone here said you can get an idea of the cooler's condition, degree of blocking, by removing the valve and looking into the cooler. Here's some info on removal and torque values, might be helpful.
     

    Attached Files:

    amos and JayD like this.
  6. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,216
    15,361
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Welcome!

    What work has been done to your Prius? PCV valve? Over here we have what is called top tier gasoline which has a high level of detergents. What type of gas do you buy? Ever use any fuel injector cleaner?

    What did the egr pipe look like when cleaned? Egr valve have a lot of deposits? Have any lights on the dash before you blocked the egr? Does your Prius consume any oil?

    Lots of possibilities, but I have cleaned the intake and egr system front to back and found carbon deposits plugging the intake inlets from the egr system. I did this when our 2010 had about 120 k miles and up over 142 k miles currently. Was able to remove early symptoms of what you are describing.

    Keep us posted(y).
     
    Robert Holt likes this.
  7. JayD

    JayD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hey, thanks for the welcome :)

    nothing apart from what's listed. Haven't done anything with PCV valve, if I put in Shell V Power Unleaded (more refined?) there's less shuddering, if you put normal fuel more shuddering. Nope no fuel injector cleaner.

    Stupidly, didn't check (mechanic changed it), I cleaned the pipe and it was clean o_O, nope no lights prior to blocking the egr valve. Engine oil level all good doesn't seem to be consuming it.
     
    #7 JayD, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  8. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,216
    15,361
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Do you have tools and inclined to do any work yourself? Given you blocked the egr and still got the same result, IMO the inlets from the egr system are clogged. The pipe being clean is a good sign, but the inlets from the egr into the intake manifold are probably restricting air flow.

    If you can, work on cleaning the intake manifold and if not done, change the PCV valve while the intake manifold is off ( it is a lot easier;)). Throttle body as well while everything is apart. It took me a little over 2 hours from start to finish for the intake system, if you are inclined and have the proper tools:).
     
    JayD likes this.
  9. JayD

    JayD Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    4
    2
    0
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I shall do it next weekend and keep you guys updated, whilst the manifold is off, is it worth replacing the gaskets or no?

    Referring to Mendels post, I guess when you say clean the egr system, that's including the cooler? What did you use to clean the system/ Intake manifold? Brake cleaner?
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  10. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    842
    412
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    Limited
    Could it be a dead spot in the throttle position sensor that just decided to manifest itself now? That would be more suspect if the throttle body had undergone an "extensive" cleaning where cleaning fluid and deposits were driven into the sensor. Such a cleaning has not happened though. I confess, I know nothing about a Prius EGR system, whether these things are still vacuum operated or not. If it it vacuum operated, then it could be a leak in the vacuum diaphragm. Taking guesses at other possibilities here.
     
  11. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,216
    15,361
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I planned my work and did change the gaskets out. I assume the factory torqued them to spec and when I pulled them out, the gaskets showed no signs of compression. So they could be reused, or for $35 and a little planning you can have new ones installed;). I used a nylon brush and toothbrush for the manifold inlets. I did spray some Pb blaster on the plastic manifold to help cut some of the deposits then let it thoroughly dry before reinstall otherwise you'll have the volatile cleaner creating havoc upon startup;).

    I also did the egr cooler. If you are going to add that to the list of work, plan for more than a day and an extra set of hands helps a lot. If you are doing the cooler, plan on draining the engine coolant and replace the coolant with the Toyota super long life pink fluid.If you follow factory service recommendations for maintenance, at 150k miles, you are due to replace it anyway as well as the inverter coolant.

    Good luck next weekend and keep us posted(y).
     
    Rebound and Robert Holt like this.
  12. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,919
    2,526
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I want to be sure I understand the problem:
    You get shudder/rattling around 18-23 mph
    You replaced EGR valve and no change
    You blocked EGR valve, and problem went away

    If this is so, then I think your EGR valve is good and your intake manifold is clogged. Removal isn't very difficult with mechanical skills. Far less complex than a head gasket.

    You should replace the gaskets if possible and use a torque wrench to properly retighten the bolts. But basically you get the thing out and soak it in solvent and use nylon brushes to clear out all of the channels.

    I can't say that's 100% certain it will work, but it seems very likely to me.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    45,988
    32,843
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Here's some info on removal/install of the intake manifold:
     
    Rebound and Raytheeagle like this.
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    45,988
    32,843
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Throttle body:
     
    Rebound and Raytheeagle like this.
  15. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,919
    2,526
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Thought I'd mention that when you clean the throttle body, it is normal to find oil pooled as you gaze past the open butterfly valve and into the throttle body. You don't need to clean that oil out as it is a result of the Atkinson cycle and it will quickly accumulate there again if you clean it out.
     
    Mendel Leisk and Raytheeagle like this.
  16. tf4624

    tf4624 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    524
    51
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    take out plugs and check for hairline crack if you cant see get a new set
     
  17. yeldogt

    yeldogt Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    810
    308
    0
    Location:
    NE
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    What does Toyota actually do when they perform the new service action? -- the one with the extended warranty. I believe it mostly to do with the start up rattle, I have the exact same condition as the OP and mine strata at 150k now at 158k ... get a slight pulse as he does. It does not feel like an electrical misfire ... goes away under hard throttle or after about 20mph.

    I occasionally get the startup rattle -- very infrequent. I actually had it a bit more when new.
     
  18. laurentiu

    laurentiu Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    3
    0
    0
    Location:
    Constanta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius+ MPV
    Model:
    N/A
    And finally what was the problem? Throttle body or something else?
     
  19. taxidriver50005

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    101
    90
    0
    Location:
    GB
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Excel
    I'd go with inlet manifold as other have suggested, just had similar problem cured with a quick clean of manifold. Got to say I was a little skeptical at first but it made a huge difference to the car, Bout an hour and a half to do and cost nowt to do it

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
Loading...