Judgement Day - Intelligent Design on Trial

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 18 2007, 04:14 AM) [snapback]541184[/snapback]</div>

For the unscientific it is.

 

Wow. Just watched the program. Amazing.

My take on ID is that knowledge is power. Those who had the power in the past often were those of religious authority. With the enlightening of more and more scientific knowledge every day, those of religious power know that there con-men act of selling you a bridge is nearing an end. They are incapable to investing years and years of research to rebut all the scientists who have committed immeasurable energies to bring to the light truths that science gives us. So ID is the religious's half baked, haphazard attempt to combat science on science's turf. By doing do makes them look more and more like astrologers every day.

 

Yeah, ok I'll buy the argument about power, that explains why some would want to start an advocacy group pushing ID.

But it doesn't seem to explain it all. I've come across a fair few people who just don't accept some of what science tells us. Instead, they want to *believe* in something else, whether its god, a government conspiricy, sasquatch, or cars that run on water. What power does this give them? I come back to the moon landing example, what advantage to anyone is there in denying that we were able put men on the moon and bring them back to earth?

Is there a hardwired need to *believe* in unseen forces? Is it something strange in our current culture? Is it something in the water?

 

There was an ad on TV here reminds me of my theory of the bible and the fables within. The ad goes something like this.

Dad driving car with 6 or 7ish year old child in the back with his school bag, looks like he was on his way to school.
Child: Dad, why did they build the Great Wall of China?
Dad: (With furrowed brow) <pause>Rabbits! too many rabbits in China. Emperor um Nazi Goreng built the wall to keep out the rabbits.
Change scene to child standing in front of his class.
Child: Today I'm going to tell you about the Great Wall of China...
Narrator then says a few words about broadband Internet.

I often feel for those children of the church who with blind faith stand before their class spouting the words of their uneducated (by today’s standards) farther (church and bible). All the broadband Internet in the world won’t help.

The bible is a book of the stories parents made up to answer the questions of their children which were not based on all the facts just those observed in one's lifetime. Today we are each exposed to more information in a week than a person in biblical times was exposed to in a lifetime, I'm baffled anyone can still believe the fables. Sure father church said it so it must be true, but father and mother told you about Santa and the Easter bunny but we get past that in about the 7th or 8th year.
The bible is a valuable tool helping us with guidelines on how to live but is isn't something to build a belief system around.
The 6 commandments are a great tool, the church edited the first 4 which I believe refer to the earth rather than god.

I/ There is no other world we can live on.
II/ Don't destroy this world.
III/ Show the environment respect
IV/ Rest and recover one day in seven or thereabouts. Rest the fields and your animals also. Don't over fish a fishery and give the environment a break.

This is my interpretation and I admit to not being a scholar of the bible or anything really.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Nov 22 2007, 04:22 PM) [snapback]542991[/snapback]</div>

Would this need to believe in the "unseen" or a "higher power" exist if it were not passed on to them from generation to generation?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Nov 24 2007, 06:22 AM) [snapback]543340[/snapback]</div>

Most likely not, just as not having a need for the crutch of religion is most likely passed to us by our parents. However the need to have an invisible friend in the sky came from someone, so somewhere along the line someone developed the need for themselves. In this elightened age I can't imagine an educated person developing an imaginary all powerful friend in the sky when there is so much more true information available about the evolution of species and much better theories about the age and origin of the universe.

Just don't go walking at night in the forest, there is a witch living there in a ginger bread house ...
(Stop kids wandering and getting lost at night)

Once upon a time there were 3 pigs, one made a house of straw, one of sticks and one of bricks ...
(Master builders and brick layers promotional story)

Once upon a time there was a boy who thought it was fun to cry wolf and all the towns people would come ...
(Don't sound false alarms)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ...
(Parent answering questions they don't know the answer to.)

 

Hmmm.... I certainly agree that the human species has an innate need to try and find an explanation for events around them, this is so that they can predict what will happen next via the development of mental representations (called schemata) of the outside world. Children display this at a very early (pre-verbal) age, but then again so do cats, and most other omnivores and carnivores.

So, if there's this innate desire to have answers, and the current science-based answers are a little too complex, or they haven't been explained well, then people will reject the facts in favour of a simpler myth or metaphor? Is that what you're saying?

Take this a step further, what if there are certain *ideas* (concepts, constructs, whatever) that fulfill some fundamental aspect of this desire for simple explanations, and they actually get reinforced by social rewards even though they don't predict anything in the natural world very accurately. Other *simple explanations*, similarly inaccurate, wont get the same social rewards, and so they eventually die out.

Let's call these particular mental representations *thought viruses*. So pick your favourite belief-based system, call it fraudinetics, some of the simple ideas in fraudinetics have an appeal in that that they *explain* everything simply. Even though they don't predict anything in the sense of accurately reflecting natural processes, or making a better moustrap, you get new friends and easy praise for simply hosting this thought virus called fraudinetics. These thought viruses could spread pretty quickly. Maybe even become a majority view in some social circles, to the point where other, more accurate explanations and world views would be actively discouraged and punished.

Oooo, so is capitalism a thought virus (*future eating* of our earth's resources for short term rewards)? Hmmm...

 

I can understand WHY people need to believe in something - and ID is a logical outgrowth of that belief.

When you don't have any control over things and you are in a scary situation - it is very comforting to believe that there is a higher power that is watching over you and can possibly change the outcome. When you can't really do anything, being able to pray about a bad situation makes you feel like you are doing SOMETHING.

I do photography for NILMDTS, which is a volunteer organization that takes photos of infants who die before or shortly after birth. In every single session I've done, the one thing the family clings to is religious faith. The idea that their child has died and that's just the end is very upsetting. But if you can tell yourself that your baby is in a better place and you will see him/her again someday, somehow that makes it more bearable. It gives you something to look forward to and a reason to continue living.

Some religions have built their faith on the premise that the Bible is infallible and is literally true. If that is proven to be false - then the rest of their faith is on a shaky foundation. If it can be shown that one part of the Bible really isn't the literal truth, then what of the rest of the book? That's a very scary thing for people who have lived their whole lives based upon this premise.

Other versions of Christianity are more willing to take the Bible as inspired by God, but not necessarily factual or literal truth. They can accept evolution and other scientific theories that don't jibe with the Bible because they don't see those theories as negating the rest of their faith.

So it may not necessarily be a power thing, but just that it is so scary for people to let go of beliefs that are so comforting and important to them.