June 8, 1967

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 2 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]296474[/snapback]</div>

I actually buy that... h34r:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 2 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]296474[/snapback]</div>

Maybe Mirza would have to write a different poem now. Or if he were not biased, he could have found this information for himself prior to penning the one sided .....

 

Another interesting commentary:

http://www.geocities.com/dcjarviks/Idler/vIIIn109.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Aug 2 2006, 01:23 PM) [snapback]296513[/snapback]</div>

And the rebuttal:

Bamford Bashes Israel - Conspiracy Theorist Claims Attack on USS Liberty Intentional

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 2 2006, 08:01 AM) [snapback]296316[/snapback]</div>

Well, then you're an idiot, or moron.

 

I have looked at your links Mirza, where the people have been killed and maimed by the airstrikes and it is terrible. I have no words to describe it.

Suffice to say, the most important thing that anyone could do according to the bible is to walk humbly with their God, to do good, and to care for the widows and the orphans. That is true religion when it is practiced.

If we could do that, then I can say that the world would be a much better place.

No wonder the Lord God says that if He doesn't shorten the time, no one will be left alive on the face of the earth!

How horrendous it is, no matter what nationality you are, when one is injured, maimed, or killed.

I, for one, would never want to physically hasten to bring about my Lord's return, but will pray that He will come quickly and soon.

May God have mercy on us all and forgive us for these sins.

In Jesus' Name, Amen.

 

QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 2 2006, 08:01 AM)
I argue that there is very little moral difference between someone who intentionally kills civilians and someone who KNOWS that their actions are indiscriminately killing many civilians.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Aug 2 2006, 02:10 PM) [snapback]296539[/snapback]</div>

Well, I guess that makes me idiot #2, because I profoundly agree with Mirza, except that I'll go further and contend that there is NO moral difference between the two.

Mr. Devil's Advocate, why not spell out what makes "collateral damage" a moral act, instead of simply calling people names who believe differently than you. I'd very much like to see what reasoning process would lead someone to believe that blowing up a single innocent 5 year old, let alone dozens and hundreds at a time, could be construed as moral.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Excellent!
Congratulations to the Winners!

Mr. Mirza and Mr. Baird;

So I guess there is no difference between GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Hezbollah, Israel or the United States. Since the automobile manufactures are creating a product that indiscriminently kills an average of 42,000 innocent civilians (in the US ALONE) each year! and they know IT!!!!

But when your enemy KNOWS that its actions intentionally will cause innocent deaths if you should choose to engage them, it counts on your misplaced sense of humanity to allow them (enemies, in this case the Hezbo's) to continue to kill and maim your innocent civilians! When your enemy KNOWS that the use of hushieldsleds does not deter your actions then they are less likely to use innocents as shields. As public support will wane after the public realizes that hushieldiled don't work. (not that it wostoptopn a group like the Hezbo's from using human shields)

To minimize innocent deaths in wars, I would espouse the policy that all civilians near those being targeted (ie.e terrorists) are there at there own risk and they should leave or else be considered terrorists, otherwise they will be killed along with the terrorists. (this is a much better warning than what the terrorists gives those they drmissilesles on indiscriminently or the patrons of pizza shops!)

Knowing you, as an innocecivilianian, can be considered a target in a war zone will do two things; one, those truly innocent will leave, and two, those who never want to be a target will make it more difficult for those who make them a target (the terrorists) to exists near them.

The Lebanese don't resist the Hezbo's because, one, some agree with them, two if they resistssts they're killed and NOBODY cares if the Hezbo's execute some innocent civilians. So the Lebanese don't resist, also knowing that they are infinitely less likely to be killed INTENTIONALLY bIsraelal. But if the Lebanese resist the Hezbo's they have no doubts that they will be killed. So if the Lebanese know that they will be made targets in war because of the Hezbo's and run the same risk of death from either front they may do something about it. Either remove the Hezbo's or attacIsraelal, it could go either way. If they were intelligent (notice the "they" is plural) they would leavIsraelal alone, sincIsraelal leaves thealoneon. Unless attacked with hundreds of rockets for a period of six years for no reason other than existing!

So the real question is; Do you allow a group that uses humashieldsds to randomly rain death down upon your citizens at will or do something about it knowing that some "civilians" (not sure if the peopleremainingg in the war zone are actually civilians at this point, Hezbo hostages maybe) may be killed?

How do you stop the rocket attacks? Israel left Lebanon 6 years ago that didn't stop the attacks, and word, nothing short of the destruction of Israel will! The HEzbo's will always find a pretext for killing Israelis!

WHAT ARE YOUR ALTERNATIVES! Give up more land, to who? why? what assurances that the attacks won't continue? (ps its already been done)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(geologyrox @ Aug 2 2006, 07:49 AM) [snapback]296261[/snapback]</div>

Not so valid after all. . .

I’ve gotten a bit reluctant to mention the USS Liberty story, because it’s a real lightning rod for antisemitic nutcases. Spector also talks about this disturbing phenomenon:

He added he remains baffled that the conspiracy theories live on that Israel deliberately attacked the US intelligence ship. He suggested it might be due to anti-Semitism, or anti-Israeli sentiments.

"I know that after the war one of the first things that was done was the establishment of a [US] senator's inquiry. I know this personally, because I was called upon to testify before it. They came to the country and I was questioned. I told them what I told you just now – that there was a mistake. I am sorry for the mistake. In war mistakes happen," Spector said.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8491&only

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 2 2006, 11:01 AM) [snapback]296316[/snapback]</div>

Ooops, you forgot to mention that these were packed with explosives and being driven by known terrorists... Slight correction, just wanted to aid you in your point here, carry on..

Oh.. wait.. innocent women and children inside.. that's right.. Um.. yeah...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 3 2006, 11:25 AM) [snapback]296968[/snapback]</div>

Choose from:

Hamas
Hezbollah
al-Qaeda
Islamic Jihad
or
All of the Above

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Aug 3 2006, 07:58 AM) [snapback]296949[/snapback]</div>

Your biased lying secret sources? Why don't you start to post links to legitimate news organizations to corroborate your campaign of slander and libel? Surely, if any of that were true the BBC and The Guardian would have extensive coverage of those incidents. Oh, why bother asking? There is no credible information to support your outrageous allegations.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 3 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]296977[/snapback]</div>

He is what he is. He cites the same Lebanese ambulance corps as the Palestinian use - remember the pictures of rockets and other munitions they carried inside them. Remember, they fight like girls - they hide in hospitals and mosques and use the Red Cross for cover in addition to womens skirts and childrens playgrounds.

And please note that the BBC was almost kicked out of Israel because of its slanted views which have not changed to date. They are almost as good as al-CNN.

They are the only people in the annals of modern warfare that actively and willingly employ innocent civilians as human shields. My hope is that the press one day wakes up the fact that not only is that a WAR CRIME - it is they who are responsible for their deaths.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 3 2006, 08:51 AM) [snapback]296980[/snapback]</div>

Worse than that. Red Crescent ambulances have been used to ferry suicide bombers past security checkpoints on their way to their target destination.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 08:19 AM) [snapback]296896[/snapback]</div>

In another thread, you said you had no mercy for innocents that were murdered in war so long as they had an affiliation with, or were harboring terrorists. It's rather intolerable when people spin a matter to further their own cause.

 

If Arab terrorists did not use Red Crescent ambulances to transport weapons and suicide bombers past security checkpoints, if Hezbollah did not use medical convoys to resupply its armaments and if Hezbollah did not use hospitals as its headquarters, the Israelis have no reason to be concerned.

However, so long as these cowards use such humanitarian facilities to camouflage their terrorists acts and intentions, these unfortunate incidents will continue to take place.

I and several other posters have documented Hezbollah's and the Palestinians' use of hospitals, clinics and ambulances in their campaign of terror, so I am not going to repeat those in this post.

I am still waiting for your corroborating documentation proving your slanderous allegations that the Israelis destroyed two hospitals yesterday, as you have have us believe. That was my challenge. So far you have not been able to own up to your assertions.