Just Another Fat Bloated Company Shaking Down the Little Guy (A Volt Story)

You engage in classic fallacy by introducing your strawman. I never argued that the Volt was the cause of the bankruptcy. But, given your shrill tone, I can see why you must create a strawman to bash.

Also, your chiding that my reliance of a Forbe's article is misplaced and does not constitute reading "real" news, why did you just go the primary source rather than introducing your claim that plug in hybrids are clearly allowed "by the law?" Here's the primary source of the definition.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ343/html/PLAW-110publ343.htm

The law doesn't clearly state that this applies to plug in hybrids like the Volt. I fail to see where plug in hybrids are specifically allowed. Any reading of:
c) New Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle.--For
purposes of this section, the term `new qualified plug-in electric drive
motor vehicle' means a motor vehicle--
``(1) which draws propulsion using a traction battery with
at least 4 kilowatt hours of capacity,
``(2) which uses an offboard source of energy to recharge
such battery,
seems pretty clear that a gas powered car is not covered by this. The volt is part time electric and directly driven by the gas engine for some loads. This bit of detail has been widely argued in the press as a bait and switch by GM.

I stand by the Forbes article you denigrated.

I took practically verbatim the rundown of the subsidies directly from the quoted article which is why I put it in quotes. I did not write it as you imply by saying "your editorial."

Lastly, you twist words. Obama canned the CEO. He could have canned the Volt program. I simply pointed that out to somebody who brought it up. He didn't can the Volt. I'm not advocating for either. Government should stay the hell away.

As I said, GM and any other crony capitalist should stay the hell away from tax monies. Enough of the socializing of risk while privatizing the reward.

 

It is about EV. This is the title of the subsection: New Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle. Electric drive motor vehicle MEANS electric vehicle (minus an exclusion for golf carts and the like.)

Where do you get that the tethered Prius was thought about in crafting the law?

Lastly, this is what the argued hair split has been with respect to the Volt's gas engine merely recharging the battery or the wheels are actually driven by the gas engine. We now know that GM didn't tell the truth on this one.

 

I read all the government source data and cannot find anywhere that plug-in hybrids are allowed. The Prius is not on any list. Here's the list according to a government source:

Qualified Vehicles Acquired after 12-31-2009

CODA Automotive General Motors Corporation Nissan North America Tesla Think Wheego Electric Cars, Inc.


Further, this is completely circular. The Volt is on the list because the claim was that it was an all electric vehicle with an onboard charging engine. As you point out, Motortrend debunked this. The engine directly drives the wheels at speeds as low as 30 mph. GM lied about this. It should be immediately removed from the list, in my opinion.

This is just corporate welfare for them all. Worse, it was illegitimately obtained by GM by lying about the BOP integration.

 

Crony capitalism: Social risk, privatize reward.

As bad a car company is, did Chrysler go out of business in the past few years?

Somebody would pick up GM and hopefully totally reinvent it. Unfortunately, the government did it first.

 

Your links discussing hybrids being allowed aren't primary sources. You eschewed my links, so I went to primary sources. I will only accept primary sources or articles with citations.

Enough of your handwaving. Please provide a government reference which says that the plugin Prius WILL be allowed when it is released.

Irrespective of your repeated claims that the law says that plug in hybrids are allowed, it doesn't say that at all. Also, the Forbes article I cited disagrees with your interpretation.

Further, and I will say pretty please, where does the law use the word "assist" as you have just claimed? I mean, if I can't have my own "facts" then you can't add words to legislation that aren't there. Fair enough?

So, primary sources and actual quotes, okay?

Lastly, when did the DOE put the Volt on the list? Do you actually know? If DOE put it on the list BEFORE the Motortrend article, then I'd say you are way off base and frantically trying to justify your position with an increasing shrillness.

Oh, and to answer your last question, the Volt is purely a political animal. Do I think DOE is corrupt enough to put the Volt on the list when it doesn't belong there. I'll leave that up to you to decide.

 

No, I had just purchased my 2002 Acura 3.2 TL Type S with Nav in June of 2001 and was very please with it. I was completely ambivalent about the Prius at the time.

Yeah yeah yeah.. invisible hand. And the invisible hand can't possibly waste resources the way this government is wasting them.

Lastly, although electricity is cheaper than gasoline to use per mile, it is a more wasteful power source and actually requires more energy per equivalent mile once you consider the efficiency of converting to steam, running a generator and the transmission losses, not to mention the power loss as you charge up the battery, so it doesn't really help the environment at all.

But you knew that, right? Only could those thermodynamic realities be covered up by the iron fisted hand of government and make you believe so deeply in your Marxist rhetoric.

 

Who is "us"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket or do you always talk in the royal "we?"

The DOE link specifically says this:

The information on this page should not be viewed as an official or legally binding document. Other requirements or exceptions may apply. For more detailed information, please consult an IRS tax representative and/or official IRS publications.

Enough of your mamby pamby. You didn't even read the DOE's own disclaimer. Please point to the legislation, official IRS document, etc., which says plug in hybrids are allowed.

You are increasingly shrill. The Prius PHEV is NOT on any list. The word "assist" does not appear in the law as you claimed, and you still haven't told us whether the Volt was approved before or after the Motortrend article.

I still stand by the conclusions of the Cato Institute's Forbes op. ed. piece.

 

Boy, you change your text quicker than jack flash.

You took me to task for citing an article you disagreed with. The only logical thing to do from there is to use primary/source data. You've done nothing of the sort in more than 7 posts.

I have provided a link to the specific legislation as well as excerpted the relevant text. I have posted the specific list of cars which are eligible. This proves you are wrong. There was no use of the word "assist" as you tried to slide into your argument with your sleight of hand. The law or any IRS code I can find does not say that plug in hybrids are eligible--only some highly disclaimered DOE page which tells you specifically to check with the IRS official documents. (The DOE page is good enough to cite, but not to follow their very own instructional disclaimer. Interesting).

Lastly, just demonstrate when the Volt was added to the list and when it because known that GM lied about the drive train of the Volt, i.e. that it was possible that the gas engine would directly drive the wheels at speeds as low as 30 MPH.

I notice that even though I asked you "pretty please" show me where the phrase "batteries assist motion" was used, you haven't.

Please put up, or retract it. You aren't entitled to make crap up and to read qualifiers into legislation that don't exist.

 

And I'm not sure that the windmill at your house can provide the 16kWh necessary for a single Volt charge. So, your windmill is irrelevant. What, do you have a 150-300 watt generator? Unless you have one of those "green" windmills made with the new technology that Obama ordered that is so powerful that even Ted Kennedy didn't want anywhere near his family compound???

The power grid is based almost entirely on steam generation. Quit mocking a rock solid fact.

 

1. I asked you when the Volt was added to the list. Those dates do not say when it was added to the list. So, yes, I think you have a problem reading.

2. It doesn't matter that the dates are after the issue was known. Cato's point and I agree with it, and am arguing this point: the Volt got on the list by falsely claiming it was an electric vehicle. That it stayed on the list could be for many reasons including political expedience.

3. You told me repeatedly the the Prius Plug In DOES qualify. You have not provided a single scintilla of cited or credible source documentation that says this. Now you change your tune.

4. Attacking a person with source watch is called an ad persona attack and is fallacy, not argument. It does not debunk his claims in the article I cited.

Lastly, where does it say battery assist motion (as you claimed) in the actual law that I cited. I've asked you 4 or 5 times to defend this point. You refuse. For good reason. It shows your bias and your willingness to make stuff up to secure your point.