Just Another HV Battery Thread and Experiments

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by TMR-JWAP, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    This shoddy work is probably the industry standard with the bigger boys. All they care about is volume
     
  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    At least the start of the dog pack has quality.
     
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  3. CB-Prius05

    CB-Prius05 New Member

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    Hi TMR-JWAP, I'm new to this forum and would like to say thanks for your detailed post. I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about the Techstream. How long have you had it, what does it cost, where did you get it, etc.

    Thanks much, CB-Prius05
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    CB,

    I purchased my Techstream off ebay several months ago. This is a copy of the listing I used. I run it on a 64 bit laptop with Windows 10. Just click on the thumbnail to enlarge it.

    MiniVCI.jpg

    It's worked very well for me. It can be used on either 32 bit or 64 bit computers. 32 bit would be easiest to install, but if using a 64 bit computer, there's just a extra couple steps in the installation process. I have found that it's best to disconnect the laptop from all wireless signals prior to starting the techstream software when hooking up to a car. If it sees the computer is connected to a wireless signal, it tries to update the software and will not go any further.
     
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  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    I was able to pretty much get the battery reassembled last night. The wire connectors and the ECU terminals all looked to be in good condition. I didn't see any corrosion on any of them. So that's a good thing. I didn't go crazy with the thermal sensors on the bottom, since I may end up taking it apart again. I just clipped them in place and attached the third one to it's module using a dab of contact cement for now. Hopefully I'll be able to install it in the car tonight and do a bit of testing. I didn't use the serrated nuts that were previously installed. I used all new stainless nuts that I had available

    . IMG_1456.JPG IMG_1457.JPG IMG_1458.JPG IMG_1459.JPG IMG_1460.JPG IMG_1461.JPG
     
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  6. CB-Prius05

    CB-Prius05 New Member

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    TMR-JWAP,


    Thanks so much. That is really reasonable. CB
     
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    Got a bit sidetracked, but I was able to get the battery installed into the car today. I took it for about a 10 mile drive, and put the hammer down a few times to get a high discharge rate and got on the brakes to get a high regen rate. The highest logged discharge was 172 amps and the highest regen was 104 amps. After the drive, I parked it for about an hour and performed a load test. Sometimes the first load test immediately after installing a HV battery can be a bit weird since the car hasn't exactly gotten a good determination of the true battery state of charge. The main thing I look at is the module voltage curves and delta v curve.

    1 Post Replacement Module Voltages.png 2 Post Replacement Delta V.png 3 Post Replacement Graph Data.png
     
    #27 TMR-JWAP, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    Maybe this will be a bit more clear on the screen captures. Remember, this was just a straight up module replacement.
    Nothing special was done to match voltages or capacities. Just replaced the obviously defective module.
    Notice Block 9 is no longer an issue. Looking at the charts from the 10 mile drive, it's actually Block 2 now that may be an issue down the road, Block 2 all by itself accounts for 1/3 of the total delta V.
    I'm going to drive it for a couple days and then do another load test. Then pull the pack out again and perform the cycle testing of all 28 modules. Then we'll see how the load test looks.



    done 1 Post Replacement Module Voltages.png 2 Post Replacement Delta V.png 3 Post Replacement Graph Data.png
     
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  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    Here are the charts from the first portion of the test drive. I think it was showing to be about 6 km.
    Notice on the graph of the 14 block voltages, the green line is the lowest reading by far. That is Block 2. All the ups and downs are from me going heavy throttle and then braking trying to put the largest load possible on the battery to see if it would code out. Updating block 2 would definitely tighten up the delta V graph. Not going to do it tho. This is a simulation of what a typical repair job might look like.

    1 Post Module Replacement First Half of Drive Amp Values.png 2 Post Module Replacement First Half of Drive Module Voltages.png 3 Post Module Replacement First Half of Drive Delta V Graph.png 4 Post Module replacement First Half of Drive Data Chart.png
     
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  10. Dxta

    Dxta Member

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    Heheheheh! Are those the CQ3 chargers lying over there getting ready for the HEAT?
     
  11. Dxta

    Dxta Member

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    How did you produced these graphs please? Did you use tech stream, or what? Would want to do something like these, but being difficult. Or were you using a different software?
     
  12. Dxta

    Dxta Member

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    Third module has some kind of black, maybe heat sign on it?
     
  13. Dxta

    Dxta Member

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    This is getting exciting
     
  14. Dxta

    Dxta Member

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    Exactly! And people, still patronise them. I think its the same everywhere. People just kinda like patronise brands, and that's all.
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    Dxta,

    If you have an android phone, get two free apps called Hybrid Assistant and Hybrid Reporter. It would also be best to get a OBD 2 Bluetooth communicator called OBD Link LX. This communicator costs about $50 but it's also one of the best, as opposed to a $7 generic that probably will not work with the app. I bought the OBD Link LX because it's what was recommended by the app developer. The app itself is not perfect on some of the real time driving screens, but I only use it for the load testing and block voltage graphs.
     
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  16. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Wow! Nice Jim. That really is amazing. You should drive it ans see how long before the next module fails. This is why i passed my experiment on to you. And why i will get my next battery from you too.

    Fyi , the code when i got my car was “replace module 10”. Then i started getting “replace pack”
    Maybe the grid charging fixed module 10 somewhat.

    I have the receipt for the falcon battery if you want a pic of it with dates and such. It doesnt surprise me either that they are not done well. They only give a 1 year warranty.

    Your battery has been flawless and the car is so much better to drive. I can pulse and glide and got 48.9 mpg on my last tank coming back from atlanta. Thats about 5mpg better than with that old pack. I cant wait to see what i can get hypermiling.
     
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  17. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    I was able to drive the Prius only a small amount over the weekend and then 22 miles to work this morning. I did a load test when I got in the employee parking lot. This was around 5:30 am this morning. Notice in the first screen capture that Block 9 is now holding a higher voltage than the others as the battery is being depleted. Notice on the second screen capture (delta V graph) that the upper line is actually block 9. The average voltage is skewed toward the lower voltage due to 27 of the 28 modules being significantly lower than block 9. Then in the third graph, it now looks like block 10 could be the next "whack-a-mole" to show up.

    Although the graphs look sketchy, the car drove very well. There was no seat of the pants evidence whatsoever that the battery could be considered marginal.

    Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-20-22.png Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-20-30.png Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-28-04.png
     
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  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    I drove the car 22 miles home after work. I let it sit about 2 hours while the wife and I did some errands. Did another load test after we got home. It seems like the more I drive it, the better block 9 is working. How long before the next "Block x becomes weak" is triggered? Regardless, I probably wont be able to keep this battery in the car for more than another week. Once I pull it, I'm going to cycle test all the modules and tehn get it back in the car for testing ASAP so we can compare before and after.

    Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-21-34.png Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-21-43.png Screenshot_2017-10-16-22-21-52.png
     
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  19. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Active Member

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    Here's todays load test. There's been about a 100 miles since the last test. This will probably be the final test for this stage of the experiment. The block with the replacement module is consistently outperforming all the others by a significant margin. The graph with the module voltage curves is about 0.061 volts per division. All the remaining 13 blocks are in a relatively tight voltage range. The next stage will be cycle testing all the modules using the CQ3 chargers.

    1 Module Voltage Curves.png 2 Voltge Curve Zoomed .06v per division.png 3 Module Delta V.png 4 Module Data.png
     
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  20. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

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    Hi TMR-JWAP, thanks for taking the time to so nicely document and post your work here!

    You asked for it... It is sometimes recommended to at least do a whole pack balancing charge when one doesn't have the time to cycle individual modules. If you have a whole pack charger, you might consider balancing the whole pack, and then doing one more load test before you begin cycling modules.

    Although, considering the history of the battery, it is "relatively" well balanced, it might be interesting to see what improvement a single balancing charge might bring. I wouldn't expect it to bring the other modules much closer to the "too healthy" module, but would it perhaps boost the lowest modules a little bit?
     
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