Just for @Bisco, Model Y rumors

i certainly hope all these rumors are wrong. i want a simple prius like tesla with no frills for under 35k before tax credits
otherwise, i'll probably stick with 90% ev in my pip and 40mpg hycam for long trips

 

don't need a glass roof, 40" hi def screen, auto pilot, gull wing doors or any other nonsense

 

IIRC, back in the day - Ford & GM & maybe others would private label Japanese Autos. The early Ford Courrier & Chevy S10's come to mind. Pipe dream - wouldn't it be cool if the Chinese auto plant getting built specifically for production of the model 3 & Y's started getting private labeled as Toyotas, & then get sent to the US . Chinese labor cost is ~ ¼ of Japan. Heck, they could sell 'em for under $30K & STILL have a huge profit margin! Musk says free use of their patents - so the only thing that could get in the way might be national pride. Toyota better jump on it before Hyundai or Honda or Nissan or whomever beats them to the punch.

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Thread-worthy.

I'm with you, but don't think we're gonna win, the parade has move on, lol.

 

i have not driven one. when there is a 35k model on the lot, i will. i'm retired

 

i don't think you can make a profitable 32k bev. toyota likes profit, it helps to pay employees and stay in business.
i haven't looked at the new leaf, but the price may be right in a few years, if they keep producing without gohsen
kia is only in cali so far, and whoknkows if they'll ever come east

that's why I'm sticking with pip for now

as for tesla, they need to make a profit as well. i don't expect to see cheaper cars until production exceeds demand of higher price cars. it only makes sense

but if the model y is close to x in price, will it be doa, or will x go away?

 

Volkswagen has been talking up 'cheap' BEVs for a while now. However, I'm skeptical of their claims until a product arrives.

For instance...

VW Claims By 2020, Its Electric Cars Will Match Tesla At Half Price

This article is critical of their claims as well.

 

you could be right about eviscerating some of their ice products and the dealer network which is a difficult thing for all legacy makers, by law by the way.

but i don't think removing the ice which has been around for so long and is likely very inexpensive, can be replaced by batteries for the same cost.
but i have no idea what their costs are. you'd think if it were cheap, all kind of companies would be building them

 

Just editorial: how the heck did we get here? How about "discontinuing some of their engine-powered cars", lol.

First link, searching for the quote:


Ice Consumption during the Chilling of Eviscerated Poultry as Influenced by Insulation of Chill Tanks | Poultry Science | Oxford Academic

 

Started a new thread on VW's release of info on their EV platform.
VW's MEB electric car platform | PriusChat
There was a lot of details in a Jalopnik article, but posting their links here doesn't work.

VW has a big advantage over Tesla in their mass production experience and infrastructure. Their weak point may lie in not having strong ties to a battery supplier.

The dealer network is an issue in the US.

Engines weren't cheap when they first arrived, and they still can be. The 100kWh pack in a Tesla is less than $20,000 in terms of the battery cells. The engine of an ICE car with equivalent performance can easily approach and exceed that cost. The engine has the legacy advantage, but batteries and motors still have room to improve as their growth continues.

The investment for those improvements has a cost that won't pay off in the short term. That's why we needed the incentives. Legacy car makers aren't willing to make that investment at the expanse of their current ICE products. Between China, India, and Europe's response to dieselgate, I don't think the legacy manufactures can play wait and see for much longer.

 

disagree.

all kinds of companies are talking about making them. no one is selling a 32k bev in the u.s.

nothing in china is real, it's all smoke and mirrors

someone might make a car like the spark, not gonna cut it. to sell well, it will have to be at least cuv size

 

The infrastructure I was referring to was their production one. They have one in place, while Tesla has to build one from scratch. The mistakes Tesla isaking now, VW and the established makes made decades ago, and have learned from them.

That should give them a production cost edge over Tesla. Battery supply will be the weak link in the beginning. VW is claiming the BEVs made on their new platform will be priced around as much as a diesel model.

The issue with dealers is an US only problem, and we are no longer the big auto market. Other countries have manufacturer owned dealerships, like Tesla stores.

 

I have to believe that a Chinese company will step up with a very competitively priced, nicely appointed answer for you.