Just received my new Prius but have a problem

Jeff:

Well I still don't consider it outright dangerous or scary. Just that in an otherwise perfect car, it's a nagging detail for me.

If you want to talk about a vehicle that I had high expectations for, and it failed all of them, let's talk about the 2000 GMC Sierra that I special ordered.

Explain to me how GMC could release to the public a pickup truck - some of which are actually *used* as work trucks - with parking brakes so anemic and poorly designed that if you didn't have them adjusted every 6 months, they would fail to hold the truck on level ground? Or how conveniently off warranty they needed to be replaced at enormous cost?

That's when I dumped it. And if Lutz keeps whining about their profit margins he can shove that GMC truck of mine up his a**.

GM and Chevy really pushed their 4 wheel disk brakes on half ton trucks when they came out, making the Toyota Tundra look like some pathetic obsolete putt-putt. For 2005 they very quietly went back to rear drums, making comments about "better pedal feel" and "better parking brake performance."

So in the grand scheme of things, I'd much rather take this relatively minor issue with my Prius over the major problems I had with my much more expensive GMC truck.

Jay

 

Jay- is it true that there is no way to adjust the rear wheel alignment? I know that this is not a condition that is common to all Prius; therefore, it must be correctable without redesigning the airflow characteristics or even changing the tires. My stock tires have 30,000 miles on them and I can drive 90 mph with my hands off the wheel for a considerable distance. I don't even rotate the tires. I run 42/40 in them. I have never had the car aligned. The problem must be correctable.

The dealership recommending against the Prius for highway use is just absurd. That's the silliest thing I've heard said about the Prius and I've heard a ration of misconceptions about this car. Are you pulling my leg? Does Canada observe April fools day on May first? This is just crazy talk.

 

Hey gang,
I'm another 05 Prius owner who has previously 'complained' about poor highway tracking and susceptibility to crosswinds.
I still think it is one of the inherent problems of the Prius, and may be more or less pronounced in any of these cars, depending on alignment settings, tires and inflation, and state of use of tire, as well as loading, and also type of road surface (hence some differences with respect to location of people).
The problem with my car has improved since I first reported it, and I have not even had time to have the alignment checked. I upped the tire pressure to 40/38, and am now at 2800 miles. II do believe that as the tires break in, the situation changes. So far I would summarize based on my own experience, that this is an inherent issue with the (05?) Prius, in part related to the areodynamic design of the car, and the suspension setup. I do think that in some cases the problem is extreme, but also do believe that with careful tuning it can be brought to within acceptable levels. The work that would help with that should be: wearing in the tires, adjusting inflation, checking alignments etc.., possibly selecting different tires, and also the front spoiler work previously suggested.
Cheers,
M

 

Ray:

According to the dealer, the rear suspension is not easily adjustable. That is, you have to replace parts. If somebody has access to the shop manual, please inform me if this is *not* the case. If they're feeding me a line of s*** I want to know about it.

I've had the rear tires off for inspection and cleaning the wheel wells and have not noticed anything that looks like adjustment collars or nuts on the suspension.

My folks briefly had a 1993 Ford Taurus (They went back to Buicks) and I recall the rear suspension could be adjusted. There was an adjusting collar, like an eccentric, for the rear suspension arms.

I didn't say my rear suspension was out of spec, it's within spec though barely. The suspension shop I went to commented on the rear suspension specs but also didn't have alignment procedures for the Prius.

The folks at that suspension shop know their work, they have a good reputation in the city and are hard to get an appointment on short notice. Not only do they have the respect of the drag race and hot rod crowd, they also have a loyal following with Ford truck owners.

If you've ever owned a Ford pickup, especially a 4WD, with that awful "Twin I Beam" front end, you'll know what I'm talking about. Even with the eccentric collars on the front end, they still end up having to make bends to properly line things up.

I don't appear to have any tire wear problems or odd wear patterns. I keep a close eye on that sort of thing and the tires look like new, but then with slightly over 16,000km on the car that should be expected.

No, I'm not kidding about some salespeople telling potential Prius highway drivers that they should reconsider. If they know their Prius will be mostly in the city, they have no problem encouraging the potential buyer. I think there are only 4 Prius second generation drivers in the city.

When the 2004 model first came out, the launch dealer here had one out for a test drive by the Floodway. The Floodway runs North to South and bisects the TransCanada. If the wind is blowing, it can create a nasty gust at the bridge.

The dealer lightly brushed the guardrail, causing minor damage. I suppose that could happen to any car or truck. There are quite a few scrapes on the concrete guards.

The Prius does take a bit of getting used to wrt highway tracking. It's not that my Prius is inherently unstable. That is, if I let go of the wheel, it's not like it immediately darts off the highway.

It's just that a minor change in windspeed or wind direction can easily upset the tracking stability. I've already changed tires (OEM to Michelin Harmony) and that didn't appear to make any difference whatsoever.

And my Prius is *way* better after two trips to the dealer for alignments. It's a night and day difference. Eventually I might get used to it, but if I immediately drive a car with inherent tracking stability, like my parents 2003 Buick LeSabre, there is again a day and night difference.

Since my Prius spends at least 95% of its life in the city, I'm not going to pursue this further except maybe to try relocating the little spoilers in front of the tires. If that makes some sort of dramatic difference, then I may consider having a spoiler made.

Since this condition appears to only affect a minority of Prius, I'm wondering if it's related to manufacturing tolerances of the unitbody itself. I've driven Prius in SLC and Vegas and they drove the same: well behaved. They did *not* "feel" like my Prius at Interstate speeds. And they had the OEM tires.

Jay

 

Jayman: I haven't checked but the rear alignment sounds like it requires shims. My old Buick had no way of adjusting rear alignment, you had to shim it. I can get a better explanation out of my husband when he gets home from doing Prius pre-delivery inspections this afternoon (he's putting in extra hours this week, usually he won't work Sundays)

blkc5: This has been discussed elsewhere. Apparently, and this is just what I remember of said discussion, drum brakes are a joke in Europe yet are accepted here. Nobody over there would buy such a car without disc brakes on all 4 wheels.

And my personal experience with highway stability isn't too bad. I drove a 90 Buick (read: drives like a tank) so the switch to a lighter car was definitely an adjustment in windy conditions. I bought the car in mid March, maybe they've been making adjustments because I have none of the severe grievances that anyone here has voiced. I run on OEM tires because the impending car payments (deferred till Sept) have me putting every penny I can into savings now. We will be broke but the Prius is worth it.

 

Brian:

My dealer is unwilling to deviate from the factory specs. However, that independent alignment shop I mentioned suggested we could try going slightly positive - or even slightly negative - to see what the effects would be at highway speed.

They wanted me to immediately drive the car after each adjustment, not one of their technicians. It's not that they're afraid of the Prius, but they feel it's the owner driving the car, not one of their technicians. So the owner will know best if the suspension change is better or worse.

If that worked and there was also minimal fuel economy change, then it was a fair trade-off.

Overall I've noticed that Europeans have higher expectations for their cars wrt performance and handling. Overall we are more inclined to have the "living room on wheels" mentality. That's fine with me, assuming the Living Room On Wheels has tracking stability at highway speeds.

Faster autoroute speeds there? I had rear disk brakes on my 2000 GMC Sierra and they were a putrid piece of s***. GM actually went back to rear drum brakes for 2005 pickups.

I guess for the average driver here, mostly urban setting, the rear disks may not be necessary. They help most under very high speeds. For the driving I do the rear drums work fine and are much more tolerant of roadsalt used here.

Rear disk brakes and road salt don't get along too well. At the very least you have to pull off the caliper slide pins twice a year and make sure they're lubed and not corroded.

Jay

 

Brian:

I'm still not convinced the "soft" ride is to blame. My parents have a 2003 Buick LeSabre and that thing is downright floaty. But it tracks like it's on rails.

I replaced with the OEM P185/65 R 15 size. I do feel a difference in how it rides, not as harsh. But it didn't make any difference in highway tracking stability.

I took a peek and saw what you mean. Nope, mine is open too, no shield.

Jay

 

The Prius reminds me of the classic airplane wing, rounded up top, straight underneath. Without a spoiler somewhere, I'm thinking there will be enough "lift" underneath the car to effect tracking. Depending on other cofactors like alignment, etc, and cross winds, perhaps the total effect could be the tracking issues some have encountered.