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Key Fob Low Battery - Very Strange Symptoms

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by jhg, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    My 2012 Prius Three started exhibiting very strange symptoms when attempting to lock the car

    Expected behavior:

    1) Click the "lock" button on the key fob
    2) Lights blink once, single beep emitted, doors lock

    Actual behavior:

    1) Doors make a sound like they're locking but there is no blinking light or sound emitted
    2) After 1 second it makes a sound like the doors are locking or unlocking, I can't tell which. Also no blinking lights or beep.

    After this all the doors are locked except the driver side door. When I press the Lock button the doors respond immediately but always after 1 second there's a second mechanical lock/unlock sound and the driver side door remains unlocked. Very occasionally the first response (first mechanical clicking) is accompanied by either a beep or blinking lights or both but followed by what I assume is the driver's door unlocking.

    I experimented with using the sensor on the door handle to lock and it exhibited the same behavior as using the key fob.

    Then I took out the physical key and using it did NOT exhibit the behavior -- i.e. with the physical key I was able to lock the door with no trouble. Note that even with the physical key, locking and unlocking are accomplished via electronics and a relay, not a direct mechanical connection from the key to the lock. This seemed to rule out a mechanical issue with the locking system, leaving only a defective key fob or low battery.

    Sure enough, the battery voltage was down to 2.88v, and replacing the battery cured the issue.

    I want to understand what the car was doing and why. One possible explanation is that, in the presence of a low battery, potentially about to fail, the car decides not permit locking the driver's door, to prevent you from being locked out, and also as a warning. I don't remember seeing this documented anywhere though, and I never got any warning on the display or dashboard.
     
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  2. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Low fob batteries and/or a low 12v car battery cause a lot of strange situations. Best recommendation is to replace the 12v at 5 year intervals no matter what a test might show, and car fob batteries yourself (it is too incredibly easy to do - no tools needed) whenever you begin to see the LOW KEY BATTERY notice on your MID display.

    I never had the door problem you mention happen. I did have NO doors opening when the 12v died.
     
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  3. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    I replaced the 12v battery last year, so that’s not an issue here. Curious that I never got a message on the display about the key fob battery.
     
  4. Johnny Cakes

    Johnny Cakes Senior Member

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    I don't see how the battery in the key fob could have anything to do with this. The fob is sending a signal to the car via a radio frequency. That's pretty binary. Either the signal is sent or its not.

    The car will not permit itself to be locked if there is another key in the car. The behavior you describe EXACTLY matches that when the car detects that there is another key in the car.
     
  5. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    While I agree with you on the symptoms, all I can do is describe the events that transpired.

    The other key is (and has continuously been) in my desk drawer at home, while the behavior described occurred at various locations far away from my house. Also, as soon as the key fob battery was replaced the problem stopped and has not recurred.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    My Gen 1 behaved like that when the lock actuator motor in the driver's door had grown weak. Of course, locking by turning the mechanical key worked fine. Locking with the fob caused the actuator motor to try to lock the door, but it was not strong enough to fully reach the locked position. The car would notice (because there are switch contacts to confirm both positions, and it never locked fully enough to trigger the 'locked' confirmation), and after a couple-second delay, the car reversed the motor to bring the door back to fully unlocked. I assumed they programmed in that behavior as a way of making it more obvious the car wasn't fully locked.

    In my case, the fob battery had nothing to do with it (and, like Johnny Cakes, I can't see why it would), but replacing the actuator motor inside the door cured it for me.

    -Chap
     
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  7. Johnny Cakes

    Johnny Cakes Senior Member

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    Did you ever try locking with the second key in the desk drawer? That would have been an excellent data point to identify or eliminate the original key fob as the problem.

    With no extra key in the car, I like Chap's answer. My guess is that replacing the key fob battery was coincidental. Maybe whatever obstruction the actuator was experiencing cleared. Or maybe there was a fault in the "don't lock if there is a key in the car" circuit which cleared. It will be interesting to see whether these symptoms occur again in the future.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    When the motor is just marginal, differences in things like temperature can matter too. The lube gets gloopy when it's cold out.

    -Chap
     
  9. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    So, the problem recurred yesterday, 10 days after being "cured" by replacing the key fob battery. That battery was definitely low, but clearly the problem is elsewhere.

    I checked the 12v battery with both the onboard diagnostic mode and a multimeter. With the ICE off and no load it reads 12.2v. With maximum accessory load (high beams, rear defroster, fan on high, dome light) the voltage drops to 11.0v, which is strongly suggestive of the 12v battery being on its last legs.

    Guess I'll have to file a warranty claim, as the battery's only 1 year old.
     
  10. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    Curious. In the Gen III the mechanical key seems to engage the lock motor, which doesn't make sense if it's going to work when the battery is dead. Maybe it uses the motor if available but also has a physical linkage?
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not sure about the motor, but there is a physical linkage.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The physical key physically locks and unlocks the mechanism, but it is also detected by the car, and does trigger the motors, just to make sure all the doors are locked (or unlocked, though the other doors might only unlock on your second twist of the key).

    -Chap
     
  13. Johnny Cakes

    Johnny Cakes Senior Member

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    Out of curiosity, is any message displayed on the screen when this happens?
     
  14. jhg

    jhg Junior Member

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    To complete this thread, the problem turned out to be a failing door lock actuator. The problem slowly got more frequent and I was finally able to reproduce the issue with the lock/unlock button on the driver's door console, eliminating the key fob completely. Yesterday it started randomly failing to UN-lock the driver's door after successfully locking.

    I took it to the dealer and they quickly diagnosed the driver's door lock actuator, which they replaced.

    Seems to be back to working again.