Kia Niro Hybrid & PHEV Thread

Discussion in 'Hyundai/Kia/Genesis Hybrids and EVs' started by Tideland Prius, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I've heard that the top EV speed was 50mph, is that true? Bigger battery means it shouldn't be starting up the ICE as easily as the PiP, but I was under the impression that H/K's system was more blended PHEV than the competitors.

    Lack of a pre-conditioning is a con for those cross shopping, but do these cars have electric powerful enough to pre-heat the cabin off grid charge?
    So did my gen2 Prius, and some luxury cars might have them, but these are sized to provide a little heat until the ICE is warmed up.
     
  2. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    nope, absolutely incorrect I have seen 83mph in EV mode with my hybrid with only a 40PS motor, the plugin has a 60PS motor

    I am regularly in EV mode at 60-65mph
     
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    what about 75/80mph. What about pulling a grade. Have you noticed what speed the ice will turn on in those instances? iirc, the 1st BMW i3 drivers we're complaining loudly because when they would pull a hill, even with the ice running, the generator could not keep up its charge sustain mode.
    .
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I could get the gen2 Prius into EV at those speeds, but cruising and accelerating are two different jobs for the drive train.

    "Electric motor power is enough for city driving at speeds of up to 50 mph, but needs the help of the gas engine to achieve hard acceleration thereafter (it can continue to drive all-electrically to much higher speeds if one desires/coddles it enough)" - Hyundai IONIQ Plug-In Hybrid Test Drive Review Nets 3 Of 5 Stars

    Sounds like you can get to higher speeds with gentle acceleration, but that gentle acceleration is hard for many drivers on the road to do.
     
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  5. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    precisely, once the ICE has helped the motor to get to the cruising speed then it will happily get into EV mode

    but yep gentle acceleration under electric power only, harder acceleration needs the ICE + EV

    anything more than a gentle grade HEV will use the ICE as well, the plugin is ok on steeper hills and depends on technique, if it is a short hill if you pick up a bit of extra speed before the hill then let the some of the excess speed bleed off by limiting the EV power
     
    #105 Bluecar1, Apr 13, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2018
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  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I believe there is a separate thread for Ioniq info.
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Ioniq and Niro use the same drive train. Info on how the Ioniq PHEV behaves will most likely apply to the Niro PHEV. ICE on thresholds for the Niro might be lower in light of the fact that the HEV model gets lower fuel economy ratings.

    Going from 50mph to 75mph will likely cause the PHEV to use the ICE then. Such behaviors mean these PHEVs will likely use the engine more for a typical driver than the Prime or Volt would.
     
  8. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Good call...didn't realize that.
     
  9. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    it all depends on how quick you accelerate, if you have time and gentle then no the plugin shouldn't need the ICE, but moderate hills or acceleration then yes it will need the ICE assistance

    as with the other areas the niro, Ioniq, prime and volt all have their own strengths and weaknesses, but when you do a balanced comparison with a range of driving to be honest I don't think their is too much in it, it will likely come down more to price or equipment
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I am speaking of how I see how others on the road are driving around me. I currently have a tracker for an insurance discount on my car, so I am driving even gentler than normally, which leads to more people passing me.

    Hyundai decisions on for these plug ins(the no heat pump or DC charging) likely stem from cost and how they expect the cars to behave for a typical driver.

    What car is best comes down to the individual. Plug ins add EV range and behavior into that equation.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It might be that I just missed it but anyone recall what the neuro plug-in charge sustained mode EPA is?
    .
     
  12. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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  13. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    DC charging would be a mistake on batteries this small. Would be far better to just let it (the Niro) charge at 6 kW instead of 3 kW on level 2.

    I'd be curious how fast they let the Outlander (12 kWh pack I believe) charge with its DC. I'm guessing max like 20 kW if it's empty and then taper rather quickly.
    Even the Leaf with its 24 kWh pack gets some serious heat buildup from DC. Would just fry an 8 kWh pack.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Only from an affordability perspective.

    The capacity range for rapid charging would be tiny, but that would grow for next-gen and the prior experience works be priceless.
     
  15. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    First step is maxing Level 2 capacity. Then we can discuss DC Fast.
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Nope, since they are not related steps.

    One is AC the other is DC.

    Ask why GM intentionally withheld the 6.6kW rate from Volt but gave it to Bolt.
     
  17. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Please explain. (although I do understand the basic difference between AC and DC)

    I guess my question is....
    Would 6kW of charging on AC heat the battery up more than say 10 kW on DC would?

    Also, go into more detail about the Volt and Bolt thing.
     
    #117 markabele, Apr 15, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It's all about the AC converter. That unit under the seat would have heat to deal with.

    For DC, the unit is outside, ideally off to the side and quite a distance from the cord. Ever look close at Tesla's superchargers?
     
  19. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Active Member

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    the onboard charger in the niro and ioniq are 6.8KW capacity, so that is the maximum L2 rate
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    contrast that with some Tesla's that can L2 charge at 19.2kW if their wall charger has 277V or 240V capability. Ours could be set up to charge at 17.2 kW, but we only wired it for 11.5kW (works out to a rate of 33mph!) because that's fast enough for 99% of all things - even with the largest of traction packs imo. DC QC only becomes necessary for taking long range trips .... 100 miles or more.
    .
     
    #120 hill, Apr 15, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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