LA Times: Toyota May Redesign Push-Button Ignition

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Patrick Wong, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Toyota may redesign push-button ignition - latimes.com
    "Lyons said that Toyota would install a brake override on all new cars starting with the 2011 model year. In addition, the automaker is adding that program to four models involved in its 5.4-million-vehicle floor-mat recall -- Camry, Avalon, Lexus IS and Lexus ES. He said a decision had not been made about putting a brake override in the eight other models in that recall -- the Highlander, Corolla, Venza, Matrix, Prius, Tacoma, Tundra and Pontiac Vibe, which Toyota made in a joint venture with General Motors."

    According to this quote, Prius currently does not have brake override, which is contrary to our collective experience (try depressing the brake and accelerator pedals simultaneously at speed and see what happens.)

    Or, maybe "brake override" implies a more robust, failsafe system than is currently installed?
     
  2. johalareewi

    johalareewi Member

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    Isn't a brake override something that will override the brakes??
     
  3. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    When you dissect the the term "brake override", you are exactly correct. (Like the term "hot water heater". Why does hot water need heating?)

    I believe that the implication of what they are saying is that the foot brake will override all other systems.

    Keith
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Consumer Reports suggested that repeated attempts to press the "Power" button should be the 'force off' versus a single, 3-second duration, hold. From a human engineering standpoint, this makes a lot of sense.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Yep.

    Wouldn't it be a bit simpler (from a human factors perspective) to just add a red EPO (Emergency Power Off) switch. (Kind of like an emergency flashers switch.)

    Keith
     
  6. davidj08

    davidj08 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the link to the Times article. Toyota's announcement of a brake override for Avalon, etc. falls in line with their statement provided to NHTSA last November. See NHTSA Campaign ID # 09V388000 on their recall website. Feb 1st I wrote Toyota USA in Torrance, CA asking why Gen2 Prius was not included. I am patiently waiting for their answer. With respect to your comments on the existing override, yes we do have that. After you pointed it out to me in a previous posting I went right out to the freeway and successfully executed it. I assume the software remedy for Avalon, etc. will be a back-up system providing a failsafe outcome.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Too many false activations. Like the "self destruct" mechanisms of Science Fiction, not really a good idea. ... Wait, maybe two buttons ... the second one labeled,"And I really mean it!"

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Toyota started with that, sort of. The Power button used to be instantaneous. There were enough accidental power-downs on the highway that it was deemed a safety issue, and Toyota changed the firmware to add the three second delay.

    If we go to a red EPO we will have those same problems again, unless the EPO is under a shield. Of course a shield brings its own set of problems.

    Tom
     
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  9. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Beyond the tangible changes an brake override system and/or a near instantaneous power off button would become, I think these are things Toyota must do coming out of these recalls.

    They become real translation of a commitment to safety. Right or wrong people due to the recalls and the media are doubting Toyota. If Toyota, and Toyota salesmen can point to a brake override system being inplace, it goes a long way towards restoring peoples confidence in Toyota.

    If people come in, and have any doubts about "brakes" or "accelerator pedals", salesmen will be able to point out that those issues not only have been resolved but Toyota has gone even further by adding these fail safes.

    I think it's a costly but good move for Toyota. Especially moving forward from these recent events.
     
  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Personally, I'm for leaving the 3 second delay, because I do think accidental unintended power down could be a safety issue. But that is exactly why an EPO makes more sense to me. Just make sure it's placed in a reachable area but one that nobody would accidently hit. From an ergonomic standpoint there has to be a place that would meet that criteria.

    I'm thinking like the "emergency flasher" button in my current car. I know it's there, I know they work. But I've never accidently hit it.
     
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  11. ToyotaFleetManager

    ToyotaFleetManager New Member

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    One of the options discussed yesterday in my meeting with Toyota execs is that multiple rapid pushes of the start button may replace the 3 second hold on the start button.

    Apparently the LA Times isn't in on the latest information. In my meeting yesterday Toyota stated that the brake/throttle override will be on all production Toyotas by the end of 2010.


    Also the brake/throttle cutoff is currently on the Camry Hybrids, and will be coming on production Camry/Avalon/ES350/IS.
     
  12. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    They could put it right next to the Radio power button. And to save costs, they could just use the same button part.

    "Honey, why don't you turn on some music?" :eek:
     
  13. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    Well the problem is too many people are allowed to get a drivers license who should not be allowed to drive. Just like the Gen III brake recall which isn't really a problem at all IMO. Now Gen II people are showing their lack of common sense too. I owned a Gen II for 3 years and no brake problem.

    Just like on PC you get all these posts from people who can't be bothered to read the manual when they have a question. Of course since they did not read the manual they don't know you need to hold the power button for 3 sec to kill the engine either.

    it's called laziness and stupidity, the same thing applies to not using the hooks to secure the all weather floor mats, a floor mat recall really how unnecessary!

    Today in our society everything has to be made idiot proof, that's the real problem.
     
  14. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Tony, Wth are you trying to do, cause an accident and a fight???

    You know that my wife will want to listen to Talk Radio, while I want Rock N Roll !!!

    Keith :confused:
     
  15. ToyotaFleetManager

    ToyotaFleetManager New Member

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    I would prefer black and yellow stripped pull loop that fits between the your knees. You know the type of loop that jet fighter pilots use to eject from their aircraft.
     
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  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    And they can use Jill the Nav lady as Bitch'n Betty: "Brake failure left, brake failure right, master caution..." Eject, Eject, Eject!

    Tom
     
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  17. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Until someone's 3 year old manages to reach up and push it. :D
     
  18. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    If you design something to be idiot proof, someone will design a better idiot. :madgrin:
     
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  19. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

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    A brake override is not a "redesign" of the ignition switch. It is another MISTAKE that alters the paradigm of human-machine interaction in the automobile. Some situations may require a power brake. Quit monkeying with the controls!
     
  20. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

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    And, what about making a shifter that actually behaves properly and stays where you put it? AND SHIFTS IMMEDIATELY ON DRIVER COMMAND! The (N)eutral two second wait thing sucks, and it emasculated neutral as a safety control.
     
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