Lane Departure Warning

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by ttait, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Michael Ge

    Michael Ge New Member

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    I'd like to propose we all sign a petition to Toyota that they make the steering assist work like it does on the other Toyota models. Anyone want to join me?
     
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  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Too late? That is, unlikely they’d change it, I’d think...


    iPhone ? Pro
     
  3. Michael Ge

    Michael Ge New Member

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    Can't hurt to try and it is a good idea to let them know how unhappy the owners are.
     
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  4. ttait

    ttait Active Member

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    Since all the hardware is in place, Toyota could (IF they choose), implement this in a dealer firmware update. Note the big 'if'.
    Probably the same as any other car maker, why improve a model you've already bought, when, with enough temptation, you will buy another car having the features you really desire.
    I just feel that I was led to believe that the LDW was an improved version of LKA. We all know now that's not the case.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    We do? How so?

    A previous poster here, some years ago (stayed only very briefly), was very clearly using the old LKA as an enabler for past-midnight drowsy driving. Customer expectations were getting ahead of the available technical reality. And that was before the Telsa S driver used the AutoPilot feature to kill himself through inattention. Fortunately, that time, without hurting anyone else.

    If the newer LDW provides the same (let alone improved) safety function while reducing the enablement of drowsy (or mentally checked-out) driving, then I would strongly defend it as an improvement.
     
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  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    One of my colleagues — clearly at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek — said that he justified with his wife buying a Tesla by saying it’ll allow him to do work on his commute!

    Unfortunately, I have to all-in-all agree. Sadly, if we don’t require drivers to pay close attention to the road, they won’t. We see that even on cars with no autonomous-driving features at all: make the driving situation less demanding, and we’ll fuddle around for a new radio station, etc.

    Also, I don’t think we’ll see full level-5 autonomy for a dozen years or so, although I think level-4 (the car performs all driving actions but you still have to actively watch over it) will be fairly common in 5ish years. So, in the meantime, we need systems to force drivers to stay alert and engaged.

    Toyota‘s current LDW nearly just “punts,” so to speak on steering assistance: It helps only **a little bit**. However, it will give you a sharp warning when it (fairly reliably) thinks you’re about to get into trouble, which I perceive as “all good,” regardless of how much steering assistance the car provides.

    Tesla’s approach is to do the steering for lane-centering and -changes for you (on open roads at least), but if you don’t give steering input for a while, it alerts you. That, in my view is good but perhaps doesn’t address what is the most important: **Attention to the road** is more important than just periodically giving steering input.

    As I recall, one automaker, possibly Daimler, performs eye tracking and complains if your eyes are not on the road. All in all, that strikes me as the best approach, and it can be valuable in level-4 or even level-5 Systems.

    iPhone ? Pro
     
    #86 mr88cet, Jan 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  7. Michael Ge

    Michael Ge New Member

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    I agree that I was led to believe that the LDW with steering assist worked in the Prius Prime the same as it worked on every other Toyota model. It doesn't and that is why I think if as many as possible complained formally to Toyota corporate and every other forum possible we might get a response and a resolution.
     
  8. Michael Ge

    Michael Ge New Member

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    I have just finished an arbitration against Toyota regarding the Lane Departure Warning w/Steering Assist. The Steering Assist admittedly does not work the same as on other Toyota models but they refuse to fix it and claim the Prius works like all other Prius do but they do not work like every other Toyota model. All Toyota advertising and marketing material tout the Safety Suite to be the same on all Toyota models. I am assembling a group of Prius owners to be part of a class action suit. No money will be required nor will anyone have to do anything beyond agree to be part of the class. Please reply to this post if you have an interest for more information.
     
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  9. ttait

    ttait Active Member

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    ME!
     
  10. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    So, apologies in advance that I haven’t read every word of this entire thread (although a fair portion of it).

    This non-Prius-specific TSSC/P video seems to accurately describe how this feature behaves on my Prius Prime (Advanced):



    Does it behave differently on yours?
     
  11. Michael Ge

    Michael Ge New Member

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    Hi send me your email address and I will send you information as it develops over the next few weeks. I need to get at least 10 class members I currently have 5 since yesterday.
     
  12. ttait

    ttait Active Member

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    Sent you a PM in your profile
     
  13. hascalzi

    hascalzi Junior Member

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    No not even close. Purchased comma.ai OpenPilot to correct the problem. Now have great LKA.

    Me too
     
    #93 hascalzi, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2018
  14. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    So then, on your Prius Prime, it does not behave as described in this video? (That is, as it came from the dealer.)
     
    #94 mr88cet, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  15. hascalzi

    hascalzi Junior Member

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    Michael Ge go to
    Take your hand off the steering wheel. how far can you
    With hands-on or hands-off the steering wheel, it did not even come close. Pulled to the right very close to right edge of the lane returned to the left white lane marker, crossed over into the left lane approximately 2 feet before it responded. Went back to the dealer and asked them to the make the warning as loud as my 2013. They tried but could not. My car was made in January 2017 and delivered the end of March.
     
  16. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    It sounds like you’re expecting the Prius Prime to behave like your 2013, and/or to perform automatic lane centering. Perhaps you know something I don’t, but I don’t see any evidence, in this video or anywhere else, that TSSP was ever claimed to have such a feature.
     
    #96 mr88cet, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  17. hascalzi

    hascalzi Junior Member

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    Fact. My 2010 Prius 5 with tech package had Lane Keep Assist and lane departure warning plus auto parking. The 2013 Prius 5 had LKA and LDW but no auto parking but it had heads-up display. They both would track without hands on steering wheel far better than my Prime. The Prius 5 was the only model you could have purchased the tech option. They also had human-machine interface that only let you do this for a short time and warned it would turn off cruize. Max distance maybe .25 miles. Get a 2010 or 2013 brochure and look up Prius 5 with tech package you will read what I said is true. Before you blow smoke at me. No crap, fact. Those 2 Prii were 30 to 32 grand list each. The beeps for the warning were audible in those cars. Like you I started driving a 2006 Prius. That year headlight trouble and inverter cooling pump recall. The Prime is not as safe to drive out of the box as 2010 or 2013.
     
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  18. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Ah, OK, so I gather then that the crux of this class-action suit you’re talking about is along the lines that Toyota *should have included LKA* since predecessor vehicles had it, as opposed to that Toyota actually *claimed that the P.Prime has it*?

    If so then, OK, good luck with it...
     
  19. ttait

    ttait Active Member

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    No, the crux of the matter is the 'slippery wording' and non dealer training when the car was sold. Someone, somewhere made the decision to remove a perfectly functioning (for my purposes) LKA system. And, as one who owned a car with this system that was 8 model years earlier, unless you read every detail in the fine print. And grill the dealer. The natural assumption of a reasonable person is that in the intervening 8 model years, the existing system would have been improved, not removed.

    The problem I have is that the non tactile controls of the advanced make it necessary to actually look at the screen to make adjustments, be it temperature, audio source, or destination from the address book. I am uncomfortable looking away from the road for that long because the car can wander. LKA along with DRCC kept the car in the lane so you could find the control you needed to adjust. I also find the touch screen on the advanced requires fairly precise presses and the buttons are small. Especially when trying to redial a phone number.

    The advanced already has all the hardware necessary to integrate true LKA, and it could be activated by Toyota with a firmware update.
    And for all the Luddites, I am not seeking autonomous driving here, just a system as it previously existed to keep me safe from running into the car next to me if I want to check the map. I believe a class action is called for. I hope it will not take an accident to get Toyota's attention like the Lexus accident that led to floor mat locks.
     
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  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Class action lawsuit for a product defect? For scaling back on an advanced feature?

    Sorry, but this is nothing like the floor mat issue.
     
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