Lane Departure Warning

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by ttait, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It warns me when I'm crossing a lane on purpose, such as when 2-lanes merge and I merge slightly before the markers end or when I squeeze inside a bit on a corner.
     
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    And (just checking) you are aware that it doesn’t beep you if your signals are on for a lane change/turn, right?
     
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Yeah, but you don't use a turn signal when going around a curve on the highway or when a lane ends and you're in the lane that continues.
     
  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    (Good, just checking.)

    In my particular case, I can’t immediately recall them giving me a false positive under those two circumstances. Can’t say it’s never happened though.

    The main case where I repeatedly get unwanted beeps is on a certain freeway exit near home that takes particularly twisty bend to where it’s really hard to stay within the lines. In that case though, it’s not a false positive because I really am going over the lines.

    Hmmm... To turn my own question around to myself, apparently I’m not signaling that turnoff! Then again, it’s a dedicated exit lane, so no ambiguity there...

    Anyway, generally speaking, I don’t get many false positives. Presumably it’s some combination of my particular driving habits and the nature of the roads in my area.
     
  5. SteveMucc

    SteveMucc Active Member

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    I never said it would "steer the car through construction zones". My point was that it was basically useless for me, sure there were points where it worked well, but the dang thing would beep so often when it lost track of the lanes (which happened often in the construction zones (which were plentiful) that I had to drive through) that I rarely used it except on very long trips.

    I don't remember the LKA working at all except when it was engaged by the steering wheel button... there was no "LDW" mode, it was either lane keeping on/off.

    in any case, I don't see how you can say that getting rid of a feature you liked is going to get you anywhere in court. If a single dealership mislead you, you might have some recourse against the dealership, but I can't see anything in the Toyota literature regarding the prime that says that it is supposed to come with LKA. None of their safety sense docs that I have seen indicate anything other than LKA.

    Likely it wasn't worth the cost of porting the software to a platform was worth to them. No one is going to buy a prius for LKA, and the number of lost sales is beyond caring, and if they've got LDW already on other cars it was much cheaper to add in
     
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  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I too doubt you folks will “get much satisfaction,” so to speak, from a lawsuit. If you want to try, then obviously that’s up to you. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I personally doubt if you’ll be successful at convincing a court that Toyota did anything wrong in this regard. As far as I can tell, they said they’d implement TSSP on all 2017 models, and did exactly that.
     
    #126 mr88cet, Jun 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  7. SteveMucc

    SteveMucc Active Member

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    Ok, software is not cheap.. quite the contrary, it's probably one of the most expensive component in the car. And as far as already having the software... Having LDW on all cars in the fleet allows them to do development and coverage analysis, testing, etc. once. Doing a one-off for just the Prius, to keep the very small number of additional sales that they would get from having that feature (or losing the small number by not having it) would not be cost effective at all. Software development for safety-critical applications is extremely expensive and cumbersome (just ask them how it went for the sudden acceleration issue, it *may* not have been software, but the Toyota codebase was an absolute, horrifying mess, where I even questioned my ownership of a Toyota (note: I did not see the codebase myself, but I heard second hand accounts from the third party specialist who did)).
     
  8. ttait

    ttait Active Member

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    I always seem to start my posts with 'Except that:'
    Except that the LDW is EXACTLY what the earlier Prii had. There was a button to turn on LKA. If you didn't push the button, you had LDW. I don't think it would be a major deal to put the LKA code in some memory space and make the jumps to it in the LDW software. They would have to add the image file of the wheel back in to the distance following screen. This engineering has already been done. years ago.
     
  9. Prime8

    Prime8 Member

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    I was severely disappointed in lkas. It cost me $958 to fix it with hardware and software from comma.ai that uses the lkas electronic steering to drive the car. Works well on long trips.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The Prime doesn't have "lkas".
     
  11. SteveMucc

    SteveMucc Active Member

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    If it was only that simple. you're assuming ANY of the systems are the same (cameras, vehicle dimensions, processor, bus's, etc.). If any one of those changes it's a major amount of work, not to simply change what needs to be changed, but all the safety critical testing that needs done (e.g. full code coverage, etc.). Yes, they have knowledge of the basic algorithm necessary to make it work, how any of their existing development can be retrofitted is something that only the developers can answer and by the fact that they chose not to use it going forward I'm guessing it wasn't easy to do.
     
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  12. Prime8

    Prime8 Member

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    Sorry. I did not know how to pronounce ldawsa.
    In any case, electronically controlled steering.
    I have about 2000 miles of not driving with it now. On the rare occurrence when I drive my other cars, I think I can't believe how much I miss that feature. It is more difficult than trying to unlearn how to drive with DRCC when I drive my other cars.
     
  13. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    La Dow Sa ??
     
  14. liftmys10

    liftmys10 New Member

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    I just made the biggest mistake of my life. Not only I bought 1 prime, but (2) TWO Primes...
    Both 2019 plus models don't work as adervtised for the LDW/SA (Lane Departure Warning and Steering Assist).
    I can't compare to the previous LKA (Lane Keep Assist) design, but my 2018 Honda CRV's steering assist works night and day difference compared to my prime. I can drive from Los Angeles to Vegas with very little steering input on my Honda CRV. I would not dare to do the same for both of my primes.

    There must be a software patch that can increase the SA portion. The hardware is all there so that's not the problem i assume.

    Pretty dissapointed with this feature, especially comparing to the Honda CRV.
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    LDW w/SA is different from Honda's LKAS (or Toyota's previous LKA) systems. The latter have the name "keep" in it, implying they actively keep you in the lane with constant small corrections. LDW w/SA is a semi-active system with a warning and just a nudge (SA) back into the lane if necessary.
     
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  16. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I would find that really nice too! I concur that the SA part is seriously limited and wimpy. Helps a little, occasionally, but not much. The LDA part, however, has been working very well for me.

    Nevertheless, I don’t see much evidence that it’s not working as advertised:



    They say that LDA works on “relatively straight roads,” and that SA “will provide small corrective inputs ... for a period of short time.” That’s pretty much what I’m seeing.

    I guess I’m lucky that I never experienced Toyota’s LKA system; I had no preconceptions about how it would work beyond what I saw in this video.
     
    #136 mr88cet, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That is an abuse of today's driver assist features. The level of reliability where you will be able to safely do that, though coming, isn't yet on the consumer market.

    People's expectations are getting too far ahead of the today's technical reality. At this time, full driver engagement is still required.
     
  18. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    The two typical scenarios where I get a LD Alert is when the road starts an agressive right turn and the car interprets that as I am about to depart the lane to the left. The other being as I approach the hash pattern ahead of a left turn lane. Same thing the LD system thinks I am going to deviate from the current lane.
    I've only detected the SA feature once and that was when I was passing a car on a 4 lane (2 each direction) road and the car I was passing crossed his left lane marker. I steered left a bit and that brought be close to the double yellow line and I felt a nudge in the steering wheel. That's the only time SA was activated as far as I could tell. It was a subtle nudge.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Another scenario for me is if I'm passing a cyclist and I ride the left side of the lane towards the line. I'll feel SA increasing pressure on the steering wheel to "stop" me from rotating the wheel to the left. Occasionally, it might gently nudge me back.
     
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