Larger battery compartment

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by adric22, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    This is pure speculation on my part (but that is what this area is all about, right?)

    It sort of makes sense. One of the issues with the current plug-in prius is that they tried to cram a larger capacity battery and charger into a space originally meant for a standard hybrid battery pack (and a spare tire) I'm willing to bet the new body will be designed with a larger capacity battery in mind for the Plug-in model, while leaving it extra storage capacity for the standard hybrid.

    I think just about everyone agrees (those who like the PiP and those who don't) that the battery really needs to be larger, at least 7 Kwh like the C-Max Energi. it shouldn't be that hard to find a little more space for the extra 3 Kwh.
     
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  2. kabin

    kabin Member

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    No doubt more capacity is better for PiP. I prefer more usable vehicle storage space and hope the battery location is well thought out. Maybe integrated low and along the chassis?
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unless they make the vehicle larger, (lower mpg's?) it's going to take some very creative engineering to get more batteries in. there isn't much wasted space as it is.
     
  4. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Batteries are a hit or miss. On one hand you get more electric range, on another it takes longer to charge. And with charging stations charging by the hour and what not your savings vs a regular hybrid would be much smaller.

    There are new research batteries that are even lighter and last even longer (supposedly the Li Ions will react the same in 5 years and then suffer a drop of capacity, my guess is a PiP would be able to go from 12 miles electric to maybe 8 in 5 years?) Of course 5 years for a car is pretty good, but a good car like the old Honda CRX would actually last 10 lol.

    Then there's new technology on windshields and windows, and that can drop a couple hundred pounds which will raise MPG.

    My hope is they find some sort of solar trickle charging so you can avoid gas pumps + potentially expensive plug stations.

    An efficient enough, light enough solar could potentially yield 2-4 more mpg while driving, and while being parked, obviously trickle charge the battery and therefor increase your mileage 10-20 mpg (depending on how you wait). On a cloudy day, no problem use gas. Always have the option to plugin at home or a station, but no plug, no worries... The sun has energy.

    So...the batteries are probably not quite there (too expensive). But perhaps, lighter windshield, add the solar panels. Increase the size slightly but keeping the Prius design (like they did from 2nd gen to 3rd), have a vehicle that ends up the same weight but more thought out interior design especially for Li-Ions, and have the same or slightly larger battery pack size.

    The trickle charging is key, because then you can almost attempt to compete against the longer ev vehicles. Imagine doing a road trip across the country, stopping at pit stops just to rest, gaining a few free miles on electric.

    Imagine if you run out of gas or electric. Don't worries, hopefully it's a sunny day!
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I think you have been confused by all this small battery marketing spin. It is a bunch of bs.

    If you have a larger battery than the prius phv, say 8kwh instead of 4.4, it will still charge overnight. If you plug it into a public J1772 charger, it will give you more miles in an hour, but most people will not do pay public chargers. Gasoline is less expensive. Many chargers, like the ones in my city give you a low flat fee per month. Since chargers slow down as the battery gets full, larger capacity normally means that you can get more of a charge (more miles) in the same period of time. It also means that there is sufficient power to stay electric at higher acceleration rates and higher speeds.




    The new prius liftback is suposed to drop 150lbs. I have no idea what you are talking about on new windshield technology, it won't drop much by using less glass, and glass has not improved much during the last 10 years.



    Again this solar pie in the sky has been debunked. The way you charge with solar is to have solar on your house, or supplying your charging station. Even if you cover your entire car with panels, you can't go very fast in a 3000lb car.

    That's FUD. Batteries should be down around $500/kwh on their way to $200 or $300. That means a 8kwh battery will cost at most $4K before tax credits. After the government money they are truely inexpensive.

    The trickle charging is key, because then you can almost attempt to compete against the longer ev vehicles. Imagine doing a road trip across the country, stopping at pit stops just to rest, gaining a few free miles on electric.

    Imagine if you run out of gas or electric. Don't worries, hopefully it's a sunny day![/quote]

    It also violates the current solar panel and car design parameters. Today's battery tech is here. It does take a company like tesla to force the issue though, otherwise Nissan and GM would not have gotten in the game.
     
  6. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Here's an example of the glass: Corning's Gorilla Glass Could Make Cars Lighter and More Fuel Efficient | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

    I think it'll definitely help.

    What do you think of that NS4 video austingreen? They show some bizarre see through solar panel thing...

    Also, the range is not there for battery, at least not with current tech. You don't want to go cross country with a Tesla Model S although I'm sure someone would accept that challenge. They are good for going around town. But just imagine, stopping every 2 hours to fill up electric for 3-4 hours!? That doesn't make sense. Hybrid Plugins make more sense now, but now plugin stations are charging more it's harder...

    The government incentives are great. I bet that helped at least 50% of the buyers' decisions...
     
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  7. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Not everyone needs a car that goes across the country and of the people that do, they don't need every car of theirs to go across the country. Different needs will always dictate different cars. There will never be one best car for everyone even though there is usually one best car for each person. Make sense?
     
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  8. Johnprius

    Johnprius New Member

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    It also violates the current solar panel and car design parameters. Today's battery tech is here. It does take a company like tesla to force the issue though, otherwise Nissan and GM would not have gotten in the game.[/quote]


    (y)
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I'd be more interested if they could get a spare tire back in. The current Plug-In seems stop-gap: a regular Prius with "bolt on" plug-in capability, sacrificing the spare and space. I really hope they adress the lack of spare, next time around.
     
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  10. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I think you will see less and less cars with spares moving forward. Not saying I'm for or against this, just my opinion on what I am seeing.
     
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  11. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    I agree - I'm seeing a lot of cars now coming without a spare. And to be honest, I'm fine with it. Now that I think about it, I've been driving for 20 years and I've never used a spare. I tried once, only to find my donut tire was flat too. I think most people in the city these days call somebody to come deal with their flat tire. We all have cell phones now. Plus I imagine a lot of people would lack the skills to change the tire on the side of the road even if they had to.

    So the manufacturers are getting rid of extra expense and extra weight by losing an item that isn't all that useful in the first place.
     
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    ^ We need a dislike button, lol.
     
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  13. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    In my life, I've been stuck on the side of the road 6 times. One time, a spare fixed the problem. One time I fixed the problem with my Swiss Army Knife (an idiot mechanic forgot to tighten a hose clamp). The others all required a tow (broken trailer hub, cracked radiator, exploded radiator hose twice).

    For me, a spare is a very low priority.
     
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  14. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Like this?

    Nevermind, my emoticons are not coming thru.
     
  15. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    The incentives are for the dealers as they suck it all up by raising the price that much higher than the car is really worth... I discovered that when I considered a volt?
    Really?

    End result is buyers still aren't buying as its not worth what you get.
     
  16. garglo

    garglo Member

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    I want 3 batteries. One permanently mounted like now and two 40-50 lbs removable ones. If I'm going on a long trip I could leave them home on the charger/conditioner and have room for a spare and extra storage.
     
  17. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    The cost vs benefit is prohibitive.
    Your computer would need a way to know and switch back and forth too.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pip is well worth it if you have the right frame of mind. and in some cases cost the same as lift back.
     
  19. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Would you rather have run-flat tires? They are PRICEY and non-repairable (ie a screw/nail in the tread). Yeah, its pretty cool these tires can go a good distance with air completely removed or even puncturing the sidewall, but the cost. Fortunately, these tires appear on very high end cars, for now.

    Unfortunately, auto manufactures are looking at the spare to reduce weight. On a slight tangetn, aluminum sheet metal is another option, like Ford just did with the 2014 F150. 450lb reduction by using an aluminum body and bed.

    Yup, I agree most of the driving population does not know how to install the spare. This is a shame, they should learn as it is not difficult and faster than AAA, as you can wait quite a while sometimes.

    You should be checking your spare w/ some frequency, at least once a month. You should also carry a portable 12V tire inflator. If you had this, you would have been able to inflate your flat spare.

    I am a magnet for nails/screws. 6 of the 7 cars I have driven over 22 years, I have experienced a minimum of 2 flats per car. I unfortunately have become a skilled and FAST spare tire installer. Thus a 12V inflator, cheap torque wrench, socket extension, socket for the current car's lug nut, and gloves, all in the spare wheel well.
     
    #19 exstudent, Sep 24, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  20. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I think you might have hit the nail on the head there. When I think of other cars that were made into hybrids or plug-ins, they were existing cars retrofitted to fit batteries: Fusion Hybrid, Camry Hybrid, Plug-in Prius. Then something wonderful happened: the next generation of those vehicles were designed with battery space in mind. The first Fusion Hybrid had half the trunk space as the ICE version but the current generation is markedly better; the first Camry Hybrid had some funky trunk arrangements to accomadate the battery and cooling fan but all that is gone now. In the same way, I'm really hoping Toyota is taking the next gen Prius as an opportunity to say, "we know there will be a plug-in version of this vehicle so let's design with larger battery capacity in mind. That's my hope, anyway.
     
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