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Lawsuits blame Range Rover gear shifter for deadly rollaway

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Georgina Rudkus, Dec 21, 2020.

  1. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    #1 Georgina Rudkus, Dec 21, 2020
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Not sure I get the gist of your opening paragraph. You’re saying owners need to get with it more? My take: a good design will be intuitive, foolproof.

    I do think the car makers need reining in; some of their “improvements” can be deadly. Touch screen interfaces are incredibly distracting, for example. Another thing is those push button parking brakes: very little feedback.
     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, Dec 22, 2020
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They are all going electric parking brake to save weight. My cars with mechanical brakes have had dash lights for years.

    A big advantage of the electric ones is that they can be engaged automatically when the car is put in park or a door opens. Land Rover only had that working on the hybrid version.

    The Jeep shifter was bad design, but without knowing anything beyond LR using a dial shifter, I can't comment on it. But, "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spent nearly four years investigating reports of unintended rollaways involving Jaguar Land Rover vehicles with a dial shifter. In August, the agency closed its investigation, saying it "has not identified any mechanical or electronic faults" causing the vehicle to shift out of park and blamed "operator error.""
     
    #3 Trollbait, Dec 22, 2020
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  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    There's no such thing as "foolproof." When you've thought you've made a system that is good enough to overcome foolishness, the fool finds new ways to commit foolish actions. Humans are creatures of habit. They will always revert to what they have been doing for years with no matter to what they've learned with the new system.

    The key to a new shifter design is beast a micro downsized design of the traditional automatic shifter. To save space and weight, video game sized joysticks that activate microswitches are the answer. Even the Prius shifter needs not to be so large and complicated. My Ryobi battery powered riding lawnmower uses a cheap and inexpensive rocker switch.

    New technologies like touch screens are driven by the profit incentive. Upgrades are not made by redesigning knobs, levers or switches but by reprogramming the touch screen. Electronics are produced cheaply on assembly lines with less mechanical assembly.

    I still prefer simple mechanical devices.

    Attached is a diagram of my simple intuitive and almost "foolproof" rocker shifter switch and control panel. riding lawnmower control panel.JPG
     
    #4 Georgina Rudkus, Dec 22, 2020
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  5. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The main reason for electric parking brakes is to save cost. There is no need to design each model for the parking brake levers and routing of cables and to install them on each vehicle. The cost is savings on the labor cost for each vehicle.

    In an electrically switch transmission with no mechanical linkage, quite simply switch on the electrically controlled PARK button once the driver's door is opened.
     
    #5 Georgina Rudkus, Dec 22, 2020
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It can also save up to 13 pounds of weight.

    Many now do this. Including the hybrid version of the model in discussion.
     
    #6 Trollbait, Dec 22, 2020
  7. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    You live in Eastern Pennsylvania. Roads are heavily salted in the winter. There are electrical connectors and motors on the brake calipers.

    How long do you think they will last with that environment, and how much it will cost to replace those components in the long run?

    At a weight savings of up to 13 pounds, I don't think it's worth it.

    As a safety measure, what happens if the motors fail in the activated position or the inactivated position in an emergency?

    Eventually, I see the industry abandoning electric parking brakes like HID headlamps .
     
    #7 Georgina Rudkus, Dec 22, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There are electrical connectors to the ABS sensors in the brakes. Never had to replace them.

    The current mechanical components of the brakes themselves can be prone to corrosion.

    They are parking brakes, not emergency brakes. If they fail open, there are still the service brakes that will work. fail close, they probably can apply more force than a person's arm or leg.

    Mechanical brakes can seize up and break.

    HID was surpassed by LED, and laser where they are legal. Halogen has stuck around because they are cheap.
     
    #8 Trollbait, Dec 22, 2020
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