Leaf owners: Your thoughts on the battery pack?

Discussion in 'Nissan/Infiniti Hybrids and EVs' started by daniel, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,541
    2,110
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Wow! That's crazy. He is the Leaf version of 2 fas 4 u. :)
     
  2. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    ya i know. crazy hey?? his last car went over 300,000 miles before it disintegrated.
     
  3. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    3,938
    1,351
    28
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    "It is believed that this represents a loss of 15% capacity loss since there are 12 "tick marks" to indicate the full range. Nissan does not warrant battery capacity loss.

    Studies have shown that a large proportion of owners (60% in several cities) always charge their Leaf to 100%, Nissan recommends you charge to the 80% level to extend battery life, frequent topping off is not recommended either."

    First documented battery capacity drop in a LEAF - CleanMPG Forums
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    16,440
    6,182
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Consider the owner is charging in heated environments regularly ... and that many others are doing this too ... and of the thousands of Leafs on the road ... the failure may not be so bad, if in fact it even is a failure ... even if in fact the test results are accurate. Some have tested low, then run tests again & again, only to find out the % of loss is minimal. Lastly, this 'failure' may be a case of a Leaf delivery with a pre existing bad module. It may be in the Dealers best interest to run the comprehensive battery test once a dealer receives the EV.

    .
     
  5. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    another thing the guy did in AZ was charge to 100% then took off on vacation for a month.

    SOC should be at 40-50% for long term storage. the high voltage that occurs at 100% SOC breaks down the materials in the anode and cathode of the pack. i am afraid he does not have much of a leg to stand on.

    the other person who has verified pack degradation i think does have a good case to get his defective modules replaced. his car was a demo and its suspected the dealership kept it fully charged most of the time to insure that it was ready for a test drive. problem with that is it probably sat for multiple days in that state which most likely contributed to the degradation that was most likely present when he purchased the car.

    he did not discover it until the got his SOC meter that should capacity to be in the 255 (of possible 281) range despite the dash showing all 12 bars lit up. but posts from him indicated that his numbers were amiss from back in Oct/Nov 2011 (he got his car "around" sept i think)

    he was just the opposite. almost always charged to 80% since his driving needs were more conservative (the first guy admitted to charging to full in anticipation of going somewhere that frequently did not happen) and he simply planned his day better?
     
  6. Mx5

    Mx5 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    32
    6
    0
    Location:
    Orange county, ca
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I am not sure if they have the best system. I do know that their car was resonably priced and on the market a year ago. If I was shopping today there is still nothing else to buy that compares. I have no problem accepting a 20% loss in 5 years as has been estimated. And trust that with the money that Nissan has spent on their electric car program, that if there was a major issue they woul try to make it right. -- I may be wrong,
    But I was given $12,500 In rebates, to help make that risk more managable.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    16,440
    6,182
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    No one knows which is best, yet as the technology is still in its infant stage. Consider the Tesla Roadster pack. There have been a couple owners (at least) that have killed their massive packs by simply letting them sit in the discharged range too long. Considering how many more kWh's the roadster pack is ... if I had to replace one or the other's traction pack due to my negligence (as well as the car's ability to let that somewhat foreseeable scenario take place) ... I' already know which one I rather pay for. ;)
    .
     
  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,541
    2,110
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Yep, that person in AZ w/the degradation posted at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11
    The last 2 items are no-nos. Them being in Arizona doesn't help.

    pEEf himself chimed in at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11 and said
     
  9. fjpod

    fjpod Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    419
    71
    0
    Location:
    New York
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    All this Leaf battery talk makes me glad I bought an iMiev...although we don't yet know what it's problems will be...But if you believe Toshiba and Mitsubishithe iMiev's SciB batteries are supposed to cycle up to 6,000 times, which is 2.5 times the Leafs batteries. They also pack 1.7 times the miles by weight, and they generate a lot less heat. And theoretically, they can charge to 80% in 5 minutes, 90% in 10-15 minutes, and they accept regen a lot better.
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,512
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    There was a lot of discussion over those so-called "bricking" incidents with the Tesla Roadster. The guy who started it all had driven his Roadster to dead empty and then left it unplugged for over a month. This is extreme negligence.

    The Roadster's batteries are laptop li-ion batteries. These need more care and attention than newer types, and so the car uses aggressive temperature control, which draws power. Every owner should be aware of the requirement to keep the car plugged in. I was told this numerous times when I bought mine and after, and it's in the manual. They made very sure I understood it. High-performance cars typically need special care, and the Roadster is no exception. In fact, it needs less care than most, since all you really need to do is keep it plugged in when not in use.

    But it does use older technology batteries.

    It does this for several reasons. It was the first lithium-powered EV. The newer battery types were not yet available. But more importantly, to keep cost and weight down, Tesla chose the battery type with the lowest weight:capacity ratio and the lowest cost per kWh. These choices allowed them to build a car with three times the range of the best EVs built since, and power rivaling the best gasoline sports cars.

    "Bricking" is a non-issue if you simply follow the rules and plug in the car, which can be done with the 110-v charge cable included with the car at no added cost. (Charging this way is ponderously slow, around 50 hours from 0 to 100%, but will prevent "bricking" in a pinch.)

    If you want a fool-proof car, or you are negligent by nature, you should not buy any high-performance sports car.
     
  11. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    4,374
    305
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    i did a testdrive with the leaf and did not put the climate control on... outside was not warm but inside it was HOT....
    i was thinking maybe because i am sitting on top of the battery pack and this heats up the car? well anyway i did not need to heat the car up its was heated by itself without the heating on..
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    Oh no. the pack is under the car above the back seat encased in metal. There is no significanf heat from there. Did u by chance notice the battery temp gauge reading?
     
  13. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    4,374
    305
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    looking at the pics it deens to me also under the front seats got a part of it.
    anyway battery temp was in the middle all the time.
     
  14. scottf200

    scottf200 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    220
    61
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
  15. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,541
    2,110
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    ^^^
    Yeah, I've been following the very long 270+ page thread but haven't followed Tony's new "page 2" thread as closely.

    Although I am a Leaf fan and plan to get one (have planned to for a long time), I am disappointed so far by Nissan's response. Let's hope they come thru w/some positive news for AZ and TX folks. IMHO, they should stop selling Leafs in AZ and TX now and only allow leases there.

    I plan to lease a Leaf and am not terribly concerned about degradation from high temps. It gets hot here in summer where I am but not as hot as Phoenix and it usually cools down rapidly once the sun starts going down, unlike Phoenix.
     
  16. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    the 2nd thread started by Tony summarizes a lot of the basic info gathered from the first thread. i have started a hot weather experiment that has already provided some surprising results along with the expected.

    unfortunately my area has limited opportunity to bake the car but looks like we will have that chance this week.
     
  17. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    So basically two complete drains/day, that's impressive to not lose capacity yet.

    Excellent. Nothing like a 270 page thread (I'm kidding). That this guy compressed into shorter is great.

    In Race to Market, Nissan's Electric Car Takes Shortcuts | Autopia | Wired.com

    I knew it was not liquid cooled, but this isn't even as good as the air cooling in a PC case, which circulates air around heatsinks and which is ultimate expelled through a vent (or more) on the case. The way I read this is the same as having fans within the PC case making the heat even, but not even a single exhaust fan. Surely this can't be a good idea. If you park this car in Texas in the summer on a 100 degree day, before the car even moves the internal cabin temp and pack could be well over a hundred degrees, and simply get hotter as it moves around.
     
  18. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Oh dear.

    Tony Williams the originator of that other thread.



    So in fact the cooling is like an ipad; closed, no active air at all. This isn't even as good as the Prius gets with the rear-seat fan of its pack.

    Yeah I'd have a hard time believing all the engineers signed off on this without "encouragement". I bet the internal temps of these packs get very darn high.
     
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    4,989
    3,012
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    I have seen some remarkable engineering done with spacing and heat sinks.
    However, I am very skeptical of a passive HVAC system for an EV.
    If the LEAF were the only highway capable EV being sold, I would own one.
    However, Nissan's lack of communication to potential buyers, and especially the lack of response to owner concerns is what really makes me shy away from buying any Nissan vehicle.
    My Tesla is sitting at about 3% capacity reduction over the first 25,000 miles. I am thrilled with it as I was expecting more capacity loss (5% to 10%).
    Luckily for most owners, the large capacity losses in the LEAF are mainly limited to hot weather states. I will be curious to see how battery degradation tracks in cold weather states.
     
    usbseawolf2000 and Skoorbmax like this.
  20. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    263
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    They should last longer because no scorching heat, but then stress on a cold battery is also quite high and even with the recent updates to that the car suffers a lot of range loss in winter.
     
Loading...