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LED lights

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Piotrus Pan, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    Hi.
    I saw a very old post about using LED lights here but never saw anyone post any results of using them.
    Do you actually get some fuel improvement? Less power goes to lamps, more to be used for the car.
    Do you have any issues with using them? I know the bottom of LED's are getting hot, is that an issue?
    Do they "live" longer?

    I'm from a country where it's mandatory to drive with low beams all the time. It's 55W for 1 low beam, you get 110W for 2. Not huge amount of power but still something.
     
  2. ReDave

    ReDave Junior Member

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    LED should last a lot longer.
    Yes, LED's save electricity, but i'm not sure how measuralbe it is in MPG's
    I do like my LED's on my 2015 prius, but i'm not sure i'd change to them on my 2011 prius
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While small, that does add up -- under 1 mpg at highway speed, but several mpg in stop-and-go city traffic.

    Does the law in your country mandate actual low beams, or are DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) acceptable? The DRLs on U.S.-market 2012+ models are 7.2W each, or 14.4W for the pair. They won't retrofit to your 2010, but similar aftermarket solutions do exist.
     
  4. glutaman

    glutaman Member

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    I installed LEDs on my 2010 recently - you can find more info and photos here: LED headlights in original projectors (2010 gen 3) | PriusChat

    The bulbs have a fan at the back, but it's not getting hot at all. I was curious too, so I touched it after the headlights were on for a long time, and every time it's like room temperature metal (same after driving and after being parked/stationery; also, weather since the installation is between 5-15 degrees C).
     
  5. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    I'm confused, sorry. I thought DRLs are the small LED stripes but when I watched a video on after market DRLs they are changing the H11 lights and for me those were always the low beams.
     
    #5 Piotrus Pan, Jan 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    On the Prius and some other very recent car models, the DRLs are LED strips.

    But DRLs have been around since before white LEDs were developed. On most North American cars with DRLs, the function was originally (and usually still is) produced by normal high beams operated at reduced voltage (and power). Some DRLs may be true low beams.

    Do your country's laws very specifically and narrowly require low beams? Or is the language broad enough to merely require a certain level of daytime visibility, giving designers flexibility in how this is achieved and allowing for new innovations to be introduced? The later ought to allow you to use any of the DRL varieties commonly used in other countries.
     
  7. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    In my case I live in a "Bermuda Triangle", France has no requirements but in Belgium and Luxembourg you can drive with the parking lights. Germany I think requires low beams and Poland requires low beams for 100%.
     
  8. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    In the picture on your second post you got some small box with the lamps. Looks like charger for a laptop but obviously smaller. Do you know what it is?
    I'm asking cause I found on amazon (the only place I can buy them unfortunately) LED lights but without this small box.
    For example:
    http://www.amazon.de/Safego-Scheinwerferlampe-Autoscheinwerfer-Scheinwerfer-LHL-C6-H8911/dp/B01FHOED3S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1484768643&sr=8-3&keywords=h11+led
    {this forum doesn't show amazon links for some reason so I'll try some things to make it work}
     
    #8 Piotrus Pan, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  9. glutaman

    glutaman Member

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    Not sure what that is to be honest, but I did notice that not all LEDs have it. I'm suspicious it's only there for "decoration" :) Here's the one I got: http://amzn.to/2jAmJUT
     
  10. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    Normally LEDs need some controlling, at least a little bit.
    Have a look:
    Solutions - 30W White LED Automotive Headlamp Driver with Thermal Derating
    LEDs don't shine continuously, they flicker and in this case with frequency of 100kHz to 1MHz. It's done to save even more energy. Also they need a constant voltage so you wouldn't see them dimming, that's why the DC/DC converter.
    I thought that all this electronics are in the base of the light bulb, that would explain the radiator and the fan.
    Once again Amazon confuses the hell out of me by not providing all information.
     
    glutaman likes this.
  11. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    A gallon of gasoline can provide 36000 watts. So a consumption rate of 50 mpg equals 732 watts per mile.

    I believe a bulb's rating is the power consumed per hour. So, for example: a change from 100W to 50W would equate to a reduction of 50W in one hour.

    If you're averaging 50 mpg while traveling 50 mph, then a bulb reduction of 50W consumed in one hour would allow an increased range of 50W/732W per mile = .0683 miles = 360.6 feet (during a 50 mile trip).
     
  12. glutaman

    glutaman Member

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    Impressive! So -50W improves MPG by 0.1366% :)
     
  13. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    I knew it wouldn't be a great gain but my thoughts were more on expanding both of the batteries life for just a tiny bit at least. :)
     
  14. glutaman

    glutaman Member

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    Anything above zero is good :) I personally went for the LEDs chasing a combination of better light & cooler light temperature. The yellow of the halogens is not my favourite, and especially after installing the T10 LEDs parking lights, the H11s looked so yellow in context!
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Just because a Switch Mode Power Supply is driving it, doesn't mean the LED itself is flickering to any significant level. In that particular circuit, D1 and Cout filter out nearly all the flicker voltage, and keep the LED running continuously.

    Unlike the dim beasts of decades ago, modern high efficiency LEDs are more efficient running continuously than pulsed.
    Make that watt-hours.

    As a fuel-air munition, all burning in a fraction of a second, a gallon of gasoline can provide over a billion watts.
     
  16. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    Glutaman clearly is not into electronics so I was trying to explain something to him in a simpler way.
    You on the other hand are trying to prove something, I don't know what but I know you are wrong. Parts you mentioned, like the Schottky's diode D1 are part of signal filter. It's used to square up the signal in a fast switching circuit.
    LED diodes have something called "light inertia", meaning when you cut off power to a LED diode it will still be emitting light for some time. There is absolutely no reason not to use this to make LED's even more power efficient.
    "modern high efficiency LEDs are more efficient running continuously than pulsed" - and this is absolute bull. Even if the modern LED's are very efficient, using theirs light inertia will make them even more efficient.
     
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I originally responded to this thread with a question about how flexible OP's country's law may be on this issue. Is the language restrictive, declaring exactly how the result must be achieved (i.e. daytime lowbeams specifically required)? Or is it flexible enough to allow non-traditional solutions such as the LED-DRLs on the 2012+ Prius and many other recent North American market cars?

    No answer has been forthcoming.
    The square wave is only on the inductor (L1) side of the diode, not the LED (and Cout) side. The LED is meant to be driven with a constant current, not a flickered or pulsing current. A small triangular ripple current is present in this particular case, but it is very small compared to the DC current.
    I'll call 'bull' on that.

    A generation ago, defects in the active junction produced LED output-vs-input efficiency graphs that were zero or very low for the first few milliamps, then improving at higher currents. With these devices, high current pulses produced higher illumination efficiency than steady DC current. But even at their very best, overall light conversion efficiency was several orders of magnitude lower than today.

    Modern high efficiency LEDs were developed by, among other things, identifying and getting rid of those previous-era junction defects. Modern LED output-vs-input efficiency graphs show very high efficiency even at the very lowest currents, then dropping off slightly (but not painfully) at higher currents. Steady DC currents now produce (slightly) better illumination efficiency than do the old-fashioned high current pulses.

    Some LEDs are still driven with pulsed currents, but that is for control and other reasons. That includes efficiency of the driver or controller device, but not efficiency of the LED itself.
     
    #17 fuzzy1, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  18. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    It has "forthcame" about 10 posts ago.
    LED lights | PriusChat

    Again, if companies can make LED's more efficient by pulsing, companies will do it and there nothing you can say that will change that.
    Also, when you talk about graphs and not present them, then natural reaction is that you are pulling them out of your nice person.
    If you would stop being such a douche, maybe people would try to listen to you.
    Smugness is not helpful, feel free to mute/ban me or what ever, you are not a helpful person.
     
  19. Piotrus Pan

    Piotrus Pan Member

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    Did you had any help choosing the led's, like a website with tests? Could you share if you have?
     
  20. glutaman

    glutaman Member

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    Not really - very few resources available. When I realised they were relatively cheap (in comparison to HIDs) so I though to give them a try.