Legislation to raise sales cap for federal tax credit

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by mercat68, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. mercat68

    mercat68 Active Member

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    FYI, from Plug In America, in case you want to drop a dime on your congressional delegation:

    ——-
    Dear Plug In America Friends,

    Finally, we have bipartisan legislation in Congress that supports extending the federal electric vehicle (EV) tax credit to work for more drivers for a longer period of time. The current tax credit is capped at 200,000 vehicles per automaker, with Tesla and GM having already hit that cap.

    The Driving America Forward Act, introduced today, would raise that cap to 600,000 vehicles per automaker. The legislation is sponsored by Senators Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Susan Collins (R-ME) and Gary Peters (D-MI) on the Senate side, and Congressman Dan Kildee (D-MI 5) on the House side. It has the support of the auto industry, the Edison Electric Institute, and a number of other key stakeholders.

    We need your help! Tell your representative and senators to support the Driving America Forward Act NOW.

    Here are the key facts:

    • The current cap is raised to a total 600,000 vehicles per auto manufacturer.
    • The additional 400,000 credits have a maximum value of $7,000.
    • Consumers can receive the full value of a $7,000 credit through the calendar quarter after the 600,000th vehicle is sold, after which point it decreases to 50%, before being phased out entirely after six months.
    • Unfortunately, the bill does not allow owners to claim the credit over multiple years, although we are still trying to get that added!
    The extension of the vehicle cap will allow consumers to purchase the cars they want as the market continues to grow and mature. But we need your help to get more co-sponsors on the bill and to show Senate and House leadership there is strong support to pass this Act.

    Take action now to support extending the EV tax credit for American drivers.

    Plug In America works tirelessly as the voice of EV drivers, but this is only possible with your support. Please donate to Plug In America to help us continue fighting for smart EV policies.

    Thank you – please share this action alert widely!

    The team at Plug In America
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would prefer to see one total number of credits, and first come first serve, instead of wasting 200,000 each on mfgs that don't care, or may show up some time in the future.

    but this is better than nothing
     
  3. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Yes, just add about 2M vehicles, first come first to get them. Remove any unused of the 200K any company didn't sell yet.
    Sorry, you snoozed, you lost. To get your part of the 2M, start making them now.

    Mike
     
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Extending poorly written legislation isn't a good idea. Requirements to be eligible for the tax-credit should be addressed. In the past, they were exploited because the goal was so vague. Why would we want to renew that?

    Eligibility for the additional quantity shouldn't just be based on participation alone. There should be qualification spelled out. In other competitions you must qualify.

    That next level of subsidies should be earned. Reward those that push hard to actually reach ordinary consumers.
     
    #4 john1701a, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  5. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    In order to encourage pioneers in EV field, I think the tax credit should be for total EV's, just each brand.

    If total cap is 1 million for example, and Tesla takes 500k, rest industry take 500k, that's it.

    Otherwise, the policy would punish EV pioneers like Tesla.
     
  6. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    Totally agree!
     
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Advocating for a rush to market, rather than show support for taking time to do it right... Ugh. It's really unfortunate that narrative of "faster is better" has penetrated our society so much, most people don't even realize there is a worthy alternative available. Other markets are aware; sadly, we still haven't learned that yet.

    Think about the example no can deny anymore, Volt. That turned out to be a huge waste. Why invest so much toward plug-in hybrid technology only to abandon it entirely midway through its second generation? GM didn't care enough to implement what they originally pursued, with the aid of that subsidy money, on a platform their own customers would be interested in.

    Punishing automakers who avoid rhetoric and take some time to rollout something with wider appeal and greater potential in the future is quite backward. Allowing that to go unchallenged is a terrible next step. Your preference has been called out. What do you now suggest instead?
     
    #7 john1701a, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...the reason they have it this way, Congress originally did not want Toyota to suck up all the hybrid tax credits, so they spread the credits around to all manufacturers.
     
  9. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    How would you word it?

    Define ordinary.

    Mike
     
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  10. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    So, would a car that has hundreds of thousands pre-orders, without seeing it, qualify as having appeal?
    What is your criteria?

    Mike
     
    #10 3PriusMike, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Even better, they should drop phev’s like Massachusetts did and go right to bev’s only.
    Stop encouraging gasoline use
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    This is basic economics, the 101 first-day intro stuff. Toyota sells over 10 million vehicles annually. Those subsidized sales of "hundreds of thousands" only equates to less the 4% of their production alone. Worldwide, the total comes to almost 60 million. That perspective clearly shows us the initial sales are only low-hanging fruit... especially when you try to consider what they would have been without tax-credits through legacy channels.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That also is basic economics. It's whatever represents a major of customers. In this case, that's people who go to the dealership of their favorite brand and simply just shop around. They have a general idea what they would like and want if from the source they've grown to trust.

    Looking at inventory & sales numbers, it's easy to see the outcome. Whatever plug-in is offered should target that same pattern. This is why each automaker was given the discretion of how their tax-credit allocation could be used.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There shouldn't be a cap.
    Just a set date on when the incentive starts declining for everyone.
     
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    "A bipartisan group of lawmakers has rolled out legislation to expand the electric vehicle tax credit by 400,000 vehicles per manufacturer, a provision that would give a boost to Tesla ....But the Driving America Forward Act — whose sponsors include Michigan Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow and Tennessee Republican Sen. Lamar Alexander — is on track to face opposition from the White House and some lawmakers, according to analysts. It was introduced Wednesday."

    I think "bipartisan" is a little misleading. Better wording would be Red states with BEV auto manufacturing and blue states are proposing this. Not clear this is bipartisan which implies somewhat certain to progress. Utilities also support.

    However, I am hoping the other "bipartisan" bill helping seniors with greater IRA flexibility passses.

    Ultimately there is quite a backlash in the red states against the super-incentives for "hybrid" vehciles. Look at the penalties they want to impose on hybrid cars. It could be better for everyone if we let the technology succeed on its own accord vs. heavy handed mandates and incentives. The backlash probably has as one of it's root cause as EV advocacy extremism.
     
    #15 wjtracy, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Turn a blind-eye to what has already played out and just allow the exploit of tax-credits to continue. Ugh.

    We all witnessed GM miss opportunity after opportunity. Rather than using the knowledge & experience they gained from subsidy aided sales of Volt by rolling out that technology to vehicle types & styles their own loyal customers would prefer, it was wasted on appealing to enthusiasts.

    That lack of effort to actually change what legacy automakers sell should not be encouraged and you know it.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    susan collins?
     
  18. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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  19. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    That is the thing about the government allowing companies to innovate as they like using the incentives. Without specifically designing and picking winners it allows a diversity of solutions to be tried. I, personally didn't like the Volt, but some people did. Good for them. They saved some gas from being used. GM learned and so did other companies about what was good and bad about the design point they chose. It certainly caused more PHEVs to have larger batteries -- including the Prime.

    And GM probably got good battery longevity data from the Volt that was then rolled into the Bolt. And perhaps the feedback from the Volt helped design the Bolt.

    Mike
     
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  20. smyles

    smyles Active Member

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    Manufacturers have been given plenty of time (and incentives) to develop EVs; if after all that they figured the money is still in ICE cars (SUV, trucks, whatever) - the market has spoken and so be it.
     
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